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Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.
6. A 4/25 B45. The score is tied with 12 seconds remaining in the 4th quarter. A's legal forward pass is completed to A84 who fumbles at the B22. A65 recovers at the B16. B78 roughs the passer. Two seconds remain on the clock.
RULING: For Federation, if A65s recovery is on the ground and simultaneously causes the ball to become dead, it is not considered a new related run. Therefore penalize B from Bs 22. Result: A, 1-10 from Bs 11. Clock on ready. If time expires before the subsequent snap, play an untimed down.

Bob, do you have a casebook play to support this? I don't have mine handy. Or can you show us how you arrive at this conclusing via the rulebook?

Just curious.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally posted by mikesears

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.
6. A 4/25 B45. The score is tied with 12 seconds remaining in the 4th quarter. A's legal forward pass is completed to A84 who fumbles at the B22. A65 recovers at the B16. B78 roughs the passer. Two seconds remain on the clock.
RULING: For Federation, if A65s recovery is on the ground and simultaneously causes the ball to become dead, it is not considered a new related run. Therefore penalize B from Bs 22. Result: A, 1-10 from Bs 11. Clock on ready. If time expires before the subsequent snap, play an untimed down.

Bob, do you have a casebook play to support this? I don't have mine handy. Or can you show us how you arrive at this conclusing via the rulebook?

Just curious.

Thanks!

REPLY: Mike, This play appeared originally in the 1997 Case Book (year the rule was changed) as Play #29 in the section on new rules. It subsequently appears as Play 9.4.3D in the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 Case Books:

Play: If passer A1 is roughed on a third down play from midfield, where is the penalty enforced from if A2 catches the pass at B's 40, but fumbles on the 34 and A3 recovers at B's 30? Ruling: The end of the last run is where A2 fumbled the ball. Following enforcement, it will be A's ball first and ten from B's 19-yard line.

Hope that helps...

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.

Quote:

Originally posted by mikesears

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.
6. A 4/25 B45. The score is tied with 12 seconds remaining in the 4th quarter. A's legal forward pass is completed to A84 who fumbles at the B22. A65 recovers at the B16. B78 roughs the passer. Two seconds remain on the clock.
RULING: For Federation, if A65s recovery is on the ground and simultaneously causes the ball to become dead, it is not considered a new related run. Therefore penalize B from Bs 22. Result: A, 1-10 from Bs 11. Clock on ready. If time expires before the subsequent snap, play an untimed down.

Bob, do you have a casebook play to support this? I don't have mine handy. Or can you show us how you arrive at this conclusing via the rulebook?

Just curious.

Thanks!

REPLY: Mike, This play appeared originally in the 1997 Case Book (year the rule was changed) as Play #29 in the section on new rules. It subsequently appears as Play 9.4.3D in the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 Case Books:

Play: If passer A1 is roughed on a third down play from midfield, where is the penalty enforced from if A2 catches the pass at B's 40, but fumbles on the 34 and A3 recovers at B's 30? Ruling: The end of the last run is where A2 fumbled the ball. Following enforcement, it will be A's ball first and ten from B's 19-yard line.

Hope that helps...

It's helpful but it certainly isn't how I interpretted the "last run". Maybe it should say "related run" or something a little more clear.

(added)

It still doesn't make much sense to me.

1/10 at A-20. A7 throws a pass and A10 catches it at the A-25. B1 roughs the passer (A7). A10 fumbles at the A-28. A11 picks the ball up at the A-29 and runs to the A-35 where he is tackeled. Where is this enforced? The A28 or the A-35?

[Edited by mikesears on Mar 18th, 2004 at 02:43 PM]

REPLY: Mike...just to clarify. If A11 recovers the ball while on his feet and continues to advance, then that is a new run. In your play, the penalty would be enforced from A's 35. But if he recovered at A's 29 on the ground (i.e. diving on the loose ball) in a manner that the ball became immediately dead, and he makes no further advance, then the "last run" is that of A10 and the penalty would be enforced from A's 28 where A10's run ended (fumble).

When extending the period...

Hey guys,

I realize this must have been covered already, but here is a really easy way to remember when to extend a period.

Think of the acronym PATIO --

PA - Penalty Accepted for a live ball foul.
T - Touchdown
I - Inadvertant Whistle
O - Offsetting penalty

If any of the above items occur during a down in which time expires, you extend the period. This has helped me immensely over the past couple of years!

Also, regarding the play in which the helmet is thrown. It is meant to be a live ball foul enforced as a deadball foul (USC). Sorry for the confusion.

Finally, in NFHS (and I am really out of my element here), I think that the RTP foul is enforced from the basic spot which is the end of the run. I don't know of anything that says the end of the related run. I agree with Bob about the case book ruling in '97.

Flags and bags,
UE

REPLY: One other NFHS nuance on extending the period. Unlike NCAA rules where time must actually expire during the down, in Federation PATIO must occur during the last timed down of the period, even though expiration of time may occur after the down ends. Example:

PLAY: With 12 seconds left in the 2nd period, A runs to B's 40 where he is tackled by the face mask with 4 seconds left in the period. A accepts the penalty. The clock starts on the ready-for-play and expires before A is able to snap the ball. RULING: (NCAA) The half is over. (FEDERATION): Since the foul occurred during the last timed down of the second period, the period is extended by an untimed down.