Uncle Ernie is at it again

[James Neil]

OK Gents, it’s time again for those wonderful monthly quizzes Uncle Ernie sends to keep us all sharp during the off-season. I just worked the first 4 plays and want to see if I’m inbounds before posting the next 4 . Please clarify which code pertains and don't forget the clock

1. A 4/10 @ B-22. A's field goal is blocked and lands at the B-16. A88 attempts to recover the ball and muffs it backwards and out of bounds at the B-25.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
2. A 4/10 @ B-30. A's field goal is partially blocked and bounces into the air at the B-4. B56 recovers the ball at the B-3 and his momentum carries him into the end zone where he is tackled. During the play, A77 holds at the B-32.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
3. A 1/10 @ B-40. With the score tied, the clock is running with 15 seconds remaining in the game. A33 runs to the B-30 where he is hit and fumbles. While the ball is rolling on the ground, B56 pushes A33 at the knees from behind in an attempt to get to the ball. The ball rolls out of bounds at the B-25. 2 seconds remain on the clock.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
4. A 4/6 @ B-30. With 2 seconds left in a tied game, A is lined up for a field goal. A3 muffs the snap. While the ball is rolling on the ground, A3 from his knees bats the ball backward to the kicker, A99. A99 picks up the ball and runs to the B-30, stops and kicks the ball. B56 in an attempt to block the kick runs into A99 (not roughing). The ball rolls out of bounds at the B-1. Time expires during the play.

[Mike Simonds]

Aloha James! Good to see you.

I'm answering using NF rules.

One assumption: The kick was blocked within the expanded neutral zone and B/R did not touch the kick beyond the expanded neutral zone.

B/R's ball, 1st and 10, at B/R's 25 yard line. Clock starts on the snap.

Note: Ignore the first touching of a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone by A/K because B/R will take the ball at the most advantageous spot: their 25 yard line.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Mike Simonds
Aloha James! Good to see you.

I'm answering using NF rules.

One assumption: The kick was blocked within the expanded neutral zone and B/R did not touch the kick beyond the expanded neutral zone.

B/R's ball, 1st and 10, at B/R's 25 yard line. Clock starts on the snap.

Note: Ignore the first touching of a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone by A/K because B/R will take the ball at the most advantageous spot: their 25 yard line.

Aloha and HNY to you my Island Friend. Looking good so far. My answer reads

"B 1/10 @ B25 clock on the snap.
A88’s muff is legal because it was toward his own EZ. It is also first touching but B’s best choice it taking the ball at the OOB’s spot".

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally posted by James Neil
...A88’s muff is legal because it was toward his own EZ...

When is a muff of a grounded ball not legal?

[James Neil]

Originally posted by AndrewMcCarthy

When is a muff of a grounded ball not legal?

LOL Never .......sorry about that. I guess I'm getting a little "BATTY" in my old age.

[Bob M.]

1. A 4/10 @ B-22. A's field goal is blocked and lands at the B-16. A88 attempts to recover the ball and muffs it backwards and out of bounds at the B-25.
NF: Ignore touching behind the line. Ball is first-touched beyond the NZ. Result of the play is B’s ball 1-10 at B’s 25 (ignore the touch).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
2. A 4/10 @ B-30. A's field goal is partially blocked and bounces into the air at the B-4. B56 recovers the ball at the B-3 and his momentum carries him into the end zone where he is tackled. During the play, A77 holds at the B-32.
NF: No momentum exception on recovered loose balls. Result of play is safety. Award A two points and B free kicks from his 20. Or, if B wishes, they can have A replay 4th down, 4-20 at B’s 40 assuming that the foul occurred during the kick, i.e. before B56 recovered. Obviously, that's their best option in this case. [Note: NCAA rules do recognize momentum on recovered loose balls so their ruling would be different.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
3. A 1/10 @ B-40. With the score tied, the clock is running with 15 seconds remaining in the game. A33 runs to the B-30 where he is hit and fumbles. While the ball is rolling on the ground, B56 pushes A33 at the knees from behind in an attempt to get to the ball. The ball rolls out of bounds at the B-25. 2 seconds remain on the clock.
NF: Legal contact. A’s ball 1-10 @ B’s 25. Clock starts on snap. [I know some will disagree with this.]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
4. A 4/6 @ B-30. With 2 seconds left in a tied game, A is lined up for a field goal. A3 muffs the snap. While the ball is rolling on the ground, A3 from his knees bats the ball backward to the kicker, A99. A99 picks up the ball and runs to the B-30, stops and kicks the ball. B56 in an attempt to block the kick runs into A99 (not roughing). The ball rolls out of bounds at the B-1. Time expires during the play.
NF: Let’s take it one step at a time. A3’s bat is illegal (during a loose ball play) but does not cause the ball to become dead. A99’s kick is legal since it’s in or behind the NZ. Here’s the difficult part based upon the way Uncle Ernie worded the play: You say that B56 was attempting to block that kick. To me, that means that it was reasonably obvious to him that a kick would be made. That means that a running into the kicker flag is warranted. Result: A double foul. Play an untimed down. If you had not said that B56 was attempting to block the kick, I probably would have assumed that B56’s contact is irrelevant because it was not reasonably certain that a kick would be made. In that case, the only foul would be A’s bat. I’d be certain to counsel B that accepting the penalty for A’s foul would result in an untimed down. They’ll most likely decline.

[Bob Floyd]

Bob M. Excellent job re your interpretation of the play situations. I do, however, feel the contact in #3 is illegal contact since it was below the waist. The exception to the clip or block rules allow a player to "use hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist .......to catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Bob Floyd
Bob M. Excellent job re your interpretation of the play situations. I do, however, feel the contact in #3 is illegal contact since it was below the waist. The exception to the clip or block rules allow a player to "use hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist .......to catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

Uncle Ernie felt the same way about the clipping. Hold on there Bob. You need to read the whole rule NF 9-3-5 b....Using hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist in warding off a blocker, "or when attempting to reach a runner", or catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by James Neil

Uncle Ernie felt the same way about the clipping. Hold on there Bob. You need to read the whole rule NF 9-3-5 b....Using hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist in warding off a blocker, "or when attempting to reach a runner", or catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

REPLY: Agreed. But let's look at NF 9-3-5b. It says:
ART. 5... A player shall not clip or block an opponent in the back except...(b) Using hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist in warding off a blocker, or when attempting to reach a runner or catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

I read this to say that the requirement about using my hands above the waist only is if I'm "...warding off a blocker." For the second part of (b), i.e. when I'm going after a loose ball which I may legally possess, there appears to be no such restriction. I guess it's a question of how you read it.

However, let's put ourselves on the field. There's a loose ball and A55 is standing there not realizing it's loose (or maybe he's just in a momentary fog). B23 dives for the ball and happens to hit A55 below the waist from behind in the process. Would you throw the flag in this case? Note, I mean to say that it's abundantly clear that B is going after the ball and his contact with A55 is just incidental to that effort. He's not trying to take A out of the play. It just happens because he's in B's path to the ball.

[Bob Floyd]

In my earlier post I quoted from Rule 9,Sec 3,Art 5b. I intentionally omitted the wording which was not pertinent to the play. When you read the whole rule you see there are 3 distinct situations which are exceptions to the clip or block in the back:
1. warding off a blocker, or
2. when attempting to reach a runner, or
3. catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally
touch or possess
The key word is "or" meaning all three situations require the contact to be above the waist.
I do agree if the ball is loose on the ground and in an attempt to recover a player diving for the ball contacts an opponent low I would not flag this but the way the play was worded it appeared to me that there was an intentional use of the hands low to push the opponent away.