field goal question?

[timharris]

(A)=OFFENSE AND (D)=DEFENSE

hello all,

i have never encountered this and the subject came up over the weirdest football plays in a high school game.

question 1
(A) sets up too kick a field goal, during the attempt a gust of wind starts just as the ball gets through the upright and blows the ball back on to the field, the defense recovers the ball in the endzone and think they have a touchback. whats the national federation ruling on this.

question 2
i had this happen in a high school game on a kickoff attempt (A) attempts to kickoff after scoring a touchdown, somehow the kicker slips and the ball gets this weird spin and goes 15 yards behind him spinning on the ground. the kicking team jumped on the ball. how would you guys have handled this one. does anyone else have any out of this world plays.

thanks

[Patton]

In question 1, you stated "gust of wind just as the ball gets THROUGH the upright...". Since the ball went through, I say the field goal is good and the ball is dead. If the ball hadn't gone through, the ball is still dead since it crossed the plane of the end zone and we would have a TB.

In question 2, we have 1st touching by K before the ball traveled 10 yards - R's ball at that spot.

[ABoselli]

I don't have my case book in front of me but I think I remember a case book play where this happens and their ruling is no FG, I believe. I know the Fed and NCAA differ on this one but I think the Feds say the ball must be blown back under the cross bar to be good. Maybe I have them backward, but one of them says what is described above is a made FG, one of them says its not.

[Patton]

You're right about the case book ABoselli, it's 8.4.1 sit. A pg. 56, it's a legal field goal if it penetrates the plane of the goal between the uprights. (NFHS)

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by timharris

question 2
i had this happen in a high school game on a kickoff attempt (A) attempts to kickoff after scoring a touchdown, somehow the kicker slips and the ball gets this weird spin and goes 15 yards behind him spinning on the ground. the kicking team jumped on the ball. how would you guys have handled this one. does anyone else have any out of this world plays.

thanks

There is a mantra I used as a line judge and I quote to my wingmen all the time on kickoff, "It must go 10-yards and it must touch the ground" to signify what must happen for K to recover. In this situation K cannot recover because ...

Here is one that taught me that whenever you are on the neutral zone for a free kick be prepared with beanbag in hand.

K's kicker shanks the ball. The ball strikes an R lineman in the helmet and goes out of bounds. My WH was furious that a flag was not thrown as I held the spot. I waved him over and described the play. He agreed, first and ten for R where the ball went out of bounds.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Here is one that taught me that whenever you are on the neutral zone for a free kick be prepared with beanbag in hand.

Definitely agree with you, I always have my hand resting on mine so I'm ready to bag.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by timharris


question 1
(A) sets up too kick a field goal, during the attempt a gust of wind starts just as the ball gets through the upright and blows the ball back on to the field, the defense recovers the ball in the endzone and think they have a touchback. whats the national federation ruling on this

. According to the NF case book the FG is good
NF , FIELD GOAL
8.4.1 SITUATION A: The field-goal attempt: (a) goes directly over an upright; or (b) is clearly over the crossbar between the uprights. In (a) and (b), the ball is blown back by the wind so that it drops into B's end zone. RULING: In (a), it is an unsuccessful attempt because the ball did not penetrate the plane of the goal between the inside of the uprights extended. It is a legal field goal in (b) and it doesn't matter if the ball comes back above or below the crossbar.

Originally posted by timharris

question 2
i had this happen in a high school game on a kickoff attempt (A) attempts to kickoff after scoring a touchdown, somehow the kicker slips and the ball gets this weird spin and goes 15 yards behind him spinning on the ground. the kicking team jumped on the ball. how would you guys have handled this one. does anyone else have any out of this world plays.

thanks

This will be R’s ball 1/10 at the spot of recovery
NF 6-1-6. . . If any kicker touches a free kick before it crosses R s free-kick line and before it is touched there by any R player, it is referred to as first touching of the kick. R may take the ball at the spot of first touching, or any spot if there is more than one spot of first touching, or they may choose to have the ball put in play as determined by the action which follows first touching. Such touching is ignored if it is caused by R pushing or blocking K into contact with the ball. The right of R to take the ball at the spot of first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down.

[ABoselli]

I just checked - the NCAA states it can't come back over the cross bar and be a made FG.

I knew they were different but I screwed up which was which.

[sm_bbcoach]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by James Neil
[B]

Originally posted by timharris


question 1
(A) sets up too kick a field goal, during the attempt a gust of wind starts just as the ball gets through the upright and blows the ball back on to the field, the defense recovers the ball in the endzone and think they have a touchback. whats the national federation ruling on this

. According to the NF case book the FG is good
NF , FIELD GOAL
8.4.1 SITUATION A: The field-goal attempt: (a) goes directly over an upright; or (b) is clearly over the crossbar between the uprights. In (a) and (b), the ball is blown back by the wind so that it drops into B's end zone. RULING: In (a), it is an unsuccessful attempt because the ball did not penetrate the plane of the goal between the inside of the uprights extended. It is a legal field goal in (b) and it doesn't matter if the ball comes back above or below the crossbar. [QUOTE]Originally posted by timharris
[B]
I could not find anything abnout this. Does the whole ball need to penetrate through the plane of the goal between the uprights, or just the nose of the ball like at teh EZ?

[James Neil]

Originally posted by sm_bbcoach


I could not find anything abnout this. Does the whole ball need to penetrate through the plane of the goal between the uprights, or just the nose of the ball like at teh EZ?

NF 8-2-1a ...It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent s goal line.


NF 8-4-1...“A field goal is scored as follows:
c...The kick shall pass between the vertical uprights or the inside of the uprights extended and above the crossbar of the opponent s goal.”

I read this to mean the whole ball. Otherwise it’d be written more like 8-2-1a, and say something like the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the crossbar

[sm_bbcoach]

Originally posted by James Neil

NF 8-2-1a ...It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent s goal line.


NF 8-4-1...“A field goal is scored as follows:
c...The kick shall pass between the vertical uprights or the inside of the uprights extended and above the crossbar of the opponent s goal.”

I read this to mean the whole ball. Otherwise it’d be written more like 8-2-1a, and say something like the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the crossbar

I knew it was the whole ball, but it just did not say it. Thanks for the confirmation

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Patton
In question 1, you stated "gust of wind just as the ball gets THROUGH the upright...". Since the ball went through, I say the field goal is good and the ball is dead. If the ball hadn't gone through, the ball is still dead since it crossed the plane of the end zone and we would have a TB.

In question 2, we have 1st touching by K before the ball traveled 10 yards - R's ball at that spot.

Ditto in the Great White North.