Illinois High School Association/NFHS

Ricster126 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 08:49am

I'm a youth football coach in Illinois, and we operate under the IHSA rules. We've had a couple of controversial rules interpretations in games recently. Since I wanted to make sure that I understood the rulings, I decided to get a rule book and look the rules up myself. I have not been able to find an IHSA rule book (including checking with two friends who are high school coaches), but was able to procure an NFHS rule book. My question is, for any of you that referee high school in Illinois, can you tell my how these rules fit together generally, and is there a way to obtain an IHSA rule book, or does the NFHS cover everything?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 09:29am

All states except TX and MA play by NFHS rules. No state, that I'm aware of it, produces their own rule book. So, you can't find an IHSA rule book because it doesn't exist. I'm sure they have a policy handbook but a book with playing rules, no.

Ricster126 · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 09:49am

I wondered about that. In the 2003 book that I have, it lists member states, and Illinois is not listed. Anyway, thanks for the info.

Theisey · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 10:27am

Odd, because Illinois has a member on the Editorial Commiittee.

5 sport ref · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 10:28am

As an Illinois official, I can tell you that the NFHS rule book is the IHSA rule book.

Theisey · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 11:51am

I just noticed the poster said he was a Youth coach.

Back when I did work Youth games, or Pop Warner games or Little League games, those organizations had pages and pages of exceptions to the base rules. The base rules were the NFHS rules.
So what he really needs is a copy of those league rule exceptions which I would think he should have.

I still do an occasional "modified" (7th and 8th grade)football game and it has it's own set of exceptions to the base rules. Ya gotta have these to properly officiate or coach the team.

Ricster126 · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 05:40pm

We also have exceptions to the IHSA rules, but those exceptions deal with issues like stripers (overweight kids) and coaches on the field. My questions related to situations involving blocking below the waist by a runningback not in the free blocking zone at the start of the play and an illegal substitution where a kid fakes running off the field and then goes out for a pass. Our exceptions don't deal with anything like that, the IHSA rules do.

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 06:44pm

If you'll post your questions about these plays here, I can assure you that you'll receive the correct interpretations.

5 sport ref · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 06:51pm

Blocking below the waist by a runningback not in the free blocking zone at the snap is not allowed. Just out of curiousity why would you have a back block someone below the waist? You could really hurt someone.

Your other question about where a kid fakes running off the field and then goes out for a pass depends how it is done.

The better youth teams I have seen are well coached in blocking and can really pound it between the tackles. Trickery is not always needed,

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 08:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by 5 sport ref
Blocking below the waist by a runningback not in the free blocking zone at the snap is not allowed. Just out of curiousity why would you have a back block someone below the waist? You could really hurt someone.

Your other question about where a kid fakes running off the field and then goes out for a pass depends how it is done.

The better youth teams I have seen are well coached in blocking and can really pound it between the tackles. Trickery is not always needed,

Go easy, 5 sport. He never indicated he used those tactics. Have you considered that he face a team that did and was curious about those situations?

5 sport ref · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 09, 2003, 11:04pm

Sorry. Was having a bad day. I probably did over 100 youth games this season and at least once per day I had a coach who had a gimick play that they try to run. Some want to run a center sneak where the center will snap the ball and just take it and run from there. Then we tell the coach that it is illegal and that the center must face his own goal line to take the snap. Usual reply is that we always do it that way. I fault the rest of my official bretheren (sp?). It should be called the same way every week. I just think that a lot of youth teams worry about gimicks they can run as opposed to fundamentals

Bob M. · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 10, 2003, 11:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ricster126
We also have exceptions to the IHSA rules, but those exceptions deal with issues like stripers (overweight kids) and coaches on the field. My questions related to situations involving blocking below the waist by a runningback not in the free blocking zone at the start of the play and an illegal substitution where a kid fakes running off the field and then goes out for a pass. Our exceptions don't deal with anything like that, the IHSA rules do.

REPLY: I agree that it would be good for you to post the specifics of the plays you'd like us to comment on. However, blocking below the waist by a running back is illegal regardless of where he is--free-blocking zone or not (see NF 2-17-2). And using a player in a pretended substitution to deceive his opponents constitutes illegal participation at the snap (see NF 9-6-4c). I would doubt that the IHSA or your league would set aside either of these rules.

Bob M.

mikesears · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 10, 2003, 12:07pm

It seems that these two questions were asked and addressed over at the NFHS discussion forum. He probably just asked them in several forums to get the most out of his questions.

The NFHS (of which the IHSA is a member) does not set aside any rule. I think the NFHS forum did a very good job explaining the answer.

Ricster126 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 10, 2003, 11:56pm

i thank you all for your replies. In response to the request for specifics, both of these situations occurred when other teams ran them against us. I'm well aware of the dangers of blocking below the waist and would never teach one of my kids to do that. It happened to us in a conference game and when I complained to the refs, they told me that it was okay. He was clearly blocking below the waist, diving at kids' legs, and no, he wasn't starting high and then going down, nor were our kids fending him off with their hands and touching him and making it a legal block. I was just wondering why two refs wouldn't call a clearly illegal block that everyone seems to know about.

Regarding the deception play, I agree with whoever said that all these youth coaches seem to want to run trick plays. We've had that deception play run against us 3 times this year, and I don't believe that it was done correctly any time, although I can't be sure because I don't know whether the kid near the sidelines was within 15 yards of the ball, as the rule requires.

I tend to try to run straight at the other team I believe that with a little effort and technique, running between teh tackles can be very successful at this level (12-14 yr olds). The trickiest we usually get is running counters.

BTW, I didn't post this question in any other forum. Perhaps someone had a similar questions.

Again, thanks for the guidance. I think you guys by and large do a great job. I umpired Little League baseball for awhile, and I know what a tough job officiating even at that level can be.

mikesears · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 11, 2003, 07:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ricster126
i thank you all for your replies. In response to the request for specifics, both of these situations occurred when other teams ran them against us. I'm well aware of the dangers of blocking below the waist and would never teach one of my kids to do that. It happened to us in a conference game and when I complained to the refs, they told me that it was okay. He was clearly blocking below the waist, diving at kids' legs, and no, he wasn't starting high and then going down, nor were our kids fending him off with their hands and touching him and making it a legal block. I was just wondering why two refs wouldn't call a clearly illegal block that everyone seems to know about.

Regarding the deception play, I agree with whoever said that all these youth coaches seem to want to run trick plays. We've had that deception play run against us 3 times this year, and I don't believe that it was done correctly any time, although I can't be sure because I don't know whether the kid near the sidelines was within 15 yards of the ball, as the rule requires.

I tend to try to run straight at the other team I believe that with a little effort and technique, running between teh tackles can be very successful at this level (12-14 yr olds). The trickiest we usually get is running counters.

BTW, I didn't post this question in any other forum. Perhaps someone had a similar questions.

Again, thanks for the guidance. I think you guys by and large do a great job. I umpired Little League baseball for awhile, and I know what a tough job officiating even at that level can be.

I apologize. I thought this was posted on another forum. It was actually posted on THIS forum earlier. Here is the thread.

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10690