Roughing passer or "clean hands" foul?

[bigwhistle]

Team A is attempting a middle screen. The pass is grabbed in the air by lineman B75 less than a second after leaving passer A1's hand. R, focusing on passer A1, sees B55 take two full steps after pass is released and send a double forearm shiver to A1. He throws flag for "roughing the passer". Is this correct?

If the pass had been 40 yards downfield it would be a no-brainer. PF for roughing passer. However, this contact occured after the defense had intercepted the pass. Does the passer cease to be a passer when the pass ends, i.e. when the ball was possessed?

Is this a clean hands play where B should be able to retain possession because they had not fouled prior to their taking possession of the ball?

Was there any foul at all? If the play was deemed to not have been PF for roughing the passer, would the contact on A1 be deemed to just be a good legal block since he was no longer a passer but a player?

Thoughts and references please. This happened in a game governed by NCAA rules.

[Forksref]

I am going to talk NF rule book here:

2-29-4 "A forward pass ends when it is caught, touches the ground, or is out of bounds."

2-30-11 "A passer is a player who throws a forward pass. He continues to be a passer until the pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play."

9-4-3 "Roughing the passer. Defensive players must make a definite effort to avoid charging into a passer who has thrown the ball in or behind the neutral zone, after it is clear the ball has been thrown. No defensive player shall charge into the passer who is standing still or fading back, because he is considered out of the play after the pass."

The passer was no longer a passer once the ball was caught. I'd call a PF on B55. I don't think you can take the interception away from B's team because there was a foul on B after the interception. I think the rule reference in 9-4-3 doesn't apply since the ball was intercepted. PF would apply here, not roughing the passer. Sounds like R needs some help from others in his crew to determine WHEN the foul occurred, either before or after the ball was caught.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Forksref
I'd call a PF on B55.

What are you going to call a penalty against him for?

[Blind in 1 eye]

i think the judgement here is did B55 hit the passer because he was blocking for the player that intercepted the pass or did he just hit him to hit him?

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Blind in 1 eye
i think the judgement here is did B55 hit the passer because he was blocking for the player that intercepted the pass or did he just hit him to hit him?

On the play in question, the defensive player never knew that the ball had been intercepted either. He was just continuing his rush on the passer.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by Forksref
I am going to talk NF rule book here:

2-30-11 "A passer is a player who throws a forward pass. He continues to be a passer until the pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play."

9-4-3 "Roughing the passer. Defensive players must make a definite effort to avoid charging into a passer who has thrown the ball in or behind the neutral zone, after it is clear the ball has been thrown. No defensive player shall charge into the passer who is standing still or fading back, because he is considered out of the play after the pass."

I'm not directly replying you your post Forksref, just using the information you provided.

2-30-11 is an either/or rule. The passer is still the passer until he moves to participate in the play. If he was contacted in a way which would have drawn a flag for roughing the passer if the ball had travelled 10 yards then it is still roughing the passer in this example. Just because some other player made a great play does not justify the actions of all other teammates.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

What are you going to call a penalty against him for?

What part of the QB's body received the "double-armed shiver?"

[Forksref]

Trying to determine the severity or type of contact based on a description written here is difficult. I am interpreting the written description as a foul. Using the term 'shiver' to me means something more than a block. I'd have to see it to know for sure if it is a foul. I'd guess if the writer didn't think there was the possibility of a foul, he wouldn't have mentioned it.