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-   -   Late hit on 4th down. (https://forum.officiating.com/football/104727-late-hit-4th-down.html)

airraider Mon Sep 16, 2019 08:46am

Late hit on 4th down.
 
I think based on the rules, this was correctly enforced... but I think it should be looked at as a possible change.

4th and 16 - K1 takes off on fake punt. He runs out of bounds short of the line to gain and is hit late out of bounds by R1.

Since the play is over as he goes out of bounds, it is enforced as a dead ball foul.

Turn over on downs, penalty accessed on the offense after change of possession.

Shouldn't that be a situation where an automatic 1st down should be awarded?

CT1 Mon Sep 16, 2019 08:52am

No. Once he runs OOB, that play is over. Since he’s short of the LTG, the ball goes over on downs.

Now we penalize the PF. 15 yds from the succeeding spot, 1/10.

JRutledge Mon Sep 16, 2019 08:54am

At least in the NF ranks, this is not an automatic first down. It is not a "roughing" penalty which is the only AFD penalties in NF Rules. Roughing penalties are also live-ball fouls.

1st and 10 to the new offense with the yardage assessed.

Peace

HLin NC Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:44am

This nothing new in so far as the rules go, so no change is necessary. A is deemed responsible for obtaining a first down on their own.

Texas Aggie Mon Sep 16, 2019 03:22pm

NCAA: first and 10 for the Team B from the 4th down play after the 15 yard markoff from the end of the 4th down run.

Texas Aggie Mon Sep 16, 2019 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 1034476)
This nothing new in so far as the rules go, so no change is necessary. A is deemed responsible for obtaining a first down on their own.

This is a VERY good way to put it.

Robert Goodman Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:50pm

Another way to think about it is, who was supposed to be putting the ball in play when the foul occurred?

Suppose K's free kick is out of bounds untouched, and a second later, K1 commits unnecessary roughness. R has a choice first of snapping the ball or having K kick it again, and then the UR penalty from whichever spot they choose. The dead ball foul has no effect on who the ball's next going to be put in play by, or how.

Or how about this: During halftime, a player commits unsportsmanlike conduct. When they resume, the penalty for that act has no bearing on who's going to kick off or in which direction.

When a foul occurs in a dead ball interval, it doesn't matter who last put the ball in play, only who's next putting it in play.

chapmaja Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:55am

There was a similar play about 20 years ago in the MHSAA State Finals. Detroit Catholic Central vs AA Huron. AA Huron had the ball 4th and 5 from about the 8 yard line.

AA Huron QB runs and gets taken down on the 4 yard line. While after he was down, a DCC player dives on top of him. Flag is immediate. Result was DCC ball first and 10 at their 2 (half the distance from the spot of the foul).


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