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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 08:46am
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Late hit on 4th down.

I think based on the rules, this was correctly enforced... but I think it should be looked at as a possible change.

4th and 16 - K1 takes off on fake punt. He runs out of bounds short of the line to gain and is hit late out of bounds by R1.

Since the play is over as he goes out of bounds, it is enforced as a dead ball foul.

Turn over on downs, penalty accessed on the offense after change of possession.

Shouldn't that be a situation where an automatic 1st down should be awarded?
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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 08:52am
CT1 CT1 is offline
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No. Once he runs OOB, that play is over. Since he’s short of the LTG, the ball goes over on downs.

Now we penalize the PF. 15 yds from the succeeding spot, 1/10.
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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 08:54am
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At least in the NF ranks, this is not an automatic first down. It is not a "roughing" penalty which is the only AFD penalties in NF Rules. Roughing penalties are also live-ball fouls.

1st and 10 to the new offense with the yardage assessed.

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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 11:44am
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This nothing new in so far as the rules go, so no change is necessary. A is deemed responsible for obtaining a first down on their own.
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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 03:22pm
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NCAA: first and 10 for the Team B from the 4th down play after the 15 yard markoff from the end of the 4th down run.
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Old Mon Sep 16, 2019, 03:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
This nothing new in so far as the rules go, so no change is necessary. A is deemed responsible for obtaining a first down on their own.
This is a VERY good way to put it.
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Old Tue Sep 17, 2019, 12:50pm
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Another way to think about it is, who was supposed to be putting the ball in play when the foul occurred?

Suppose K's free kick is out of bounds untouched, and a second later, K1 commits unnecessary roughness. R has a choice first of snapping the ball or having K kick it again, and then the UR penalty from whichever spot they choose. The dead ball foul has no effect on who the ball's next going to be put in play by, or how.

Or how about this: During halftime, a player commits unsportsmanlike conduct. When they resume, the penalty for that act has no bearing on who's going to kick off or in which direction.

When a foul occurs in a dead ball interval, it doesn't matter who last put the ball in play, only who's next putting it in play.
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Old Thu Sep 26, 2019, 10:55am
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There was a similar play about 20 years ago in the MHSAA State Finals. Detroit Catholic Central vs AA Huron. AA Huron had the ball 4th and 5 from about the 8 yard line.

AA Huron QB runs and gets taken down on the 4 yard line. While after he was down, a DCC player dives on top of him. Flag is immediate. Result was DCC ball first and 10 at their 2 (half the distance from the spot of the foul).
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