The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 25, 2018, 11:18pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,141
Targeting Rule: NFHS, NCAA, NFL, and CFL.

I saw a play in the Green Bay-Minnesota game tonight that as a non-football official I do not understand.

B24 turns the corner on a sweep to the left and turns up field. B24 is running upright when W29 lowers his shoulder in order to tackle B24 by legally hitting B24 with his shoulder in the middle of B24's chest below B24's shoulders. Just before contact B24 lowers his head and make helmet to helmet contact with W29 with the crown of his helmet. W29 went down and eventually had to be helped to his feet and off the field.

From all of the NFHS, NCAA, NFL, and CFL games that I have watched this season, almost 100% of the time, if the Defensive Player had done this had this there would have been a penalty against the Defensive Player.

Question: Can the Offensive Player be flagged for doing the same thing?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 26, 2018, 08:42am
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
Short answer- yes

Long answer- The runner historically tends to get more leeway when lowering his helmet to finish the play.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 26, 2018, 09:03am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,559
For the record, there is no targeting rule in the NFL. I cannot speak for the CFL at all, but only NCAA and NF have a targeting rule. And the runner is not considered a defenseless player, neither is a defender trying to make a tackle, which is one major component of the targeting rule. Also targeting has nothing to do with helmet to helmet contact either. Now the NFL has some rules with helmet contact, but that is not based on any helmet contact. There is a lot of misconceptions in all the rules at those levels.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 26, 2018, 09:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,966
In NFHS targeting doesn’t require a defenseless player. But it does require “taking aim” and making contact above the shoulders. The runner generally isn’t concerned with “taking aim” at a defender.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 26, 2018, 09:23am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
In NFHS targeting doesn’t require a defenseless player. But it does require “taking aim” and making contact above the shoulders. The runner generally isn’t concerned with “taking aim” at a defender.
It is not required in either NF or NCAA, but it is a factor. More responsibility is on the person hitting a defenseless player. A runner is not a defenseless player in either and if there is helmet contact for lowering their shoulder to gain yardage, it can be considered not a foul or incidental in nature. In NCAA you can have targeting without any helmet area contact if you use the crown of your head.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 26, 2018, 09:52am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,141
Thanks for all of the replies. It seems that an Offensive Player can get away with using his helmet while the Defensive Player cannot.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 29, 2018, 11:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I saw a play in the Green Bay-Minnesota game tonight that as a non-football official I do not understand.

B24 turns the corner on a sweep to the left and turns up field. B24 is running upright when W29 lowers his shoulder in order to tackle B24 by legally hitting B24 with his shoulder in the middle of B24's chest below B24's shoulders. Just before contact B24 lowers his head and make helmet to helmet contact with W29 with the crown of his helmet. W29 went down and eventually had to be helped to his feet and off the field.

From all of the NFHS, NCAA, NFL, and CFL games that I have watched this season, almost 100% of the time, if the Defensive Player had done this had this there would have been a penalty against the Defensive Player.

Question: Can the Offensive Player be flagged for doing the same thing?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

MTD, Sr.
I can't speak to the NFHS, CFL or NFL rule, but I recall the news releases about the changes to the targeting rule a couple years ago for NCAA football. They made it clear that a runner lower his head to initiate contact with a defender was supposed to be called. In the time since this change was made I have seen ZERO calls for targeting against an offensive player, but a lot of terrible calls against defensive players for targeting.

The following is from the NCAA Rulebook regarding targeting.

"Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet

ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I) Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player

ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)

Note 1: “Targeting” means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:
• Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
• Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
• Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet

Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14). Examples of defenseless players include but are not limited to:
• A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
• A receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position to receive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
• A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier..
• A player on the ground.
• A player obviously out of the play.
• A player who receives a blind-side block.
• A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
• A quarterback any time after a change of possession
FR-88 RulE 9 / ConduCt oF PlayERs and othERs subJECt to RulEs
• A ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feetfirst."


I would argue that the indicator needed for targeting is what is changed to red above.

Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet.

This is a rule approved indicator of targeting and to often, is allowed by officials. I think there is a big problem with this rule's enforcement.

I will add that I did see two correct uses of the targeting rules over the past weekend.

First, In the Michigan-OSU game, I think the replay official absolutely should have stopped play and reviewed the hit on Gentry for targeting, which I believe they did as he was being helped off the field. I think it was absolutely the correct call to not penalize the defender for targeting (And this is coming from a Michigan fan).

The second was in the LSU-A&M game where targeting was called during the OT and was upheld.

I do have a problem with the ejection and suspension part of the rule however. I think there needs to be two classifications of targeting. One in which targeting is called by the player is not disqualified from the game and a second in which the contact is ruled flagrant and the player is disqualified from the game. I would add that if a player is disqualified for targeting as a flagrant act, they should be suspended from the next full game, not sometimes a half depending on when the foul occurs.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NFL Catch Rule vs. NCAA & NFHS FormerUmp Football 88 Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:20pm
NCAA Targeting Rule FormerUmp Football 14 Wed Oct 11, 2017 02:44am
NFHS vs NCAA rule diff letemplay Basketball 8 Tue Feb 02, 2016 04:46pm
NCAA proposes changes to targeting, substitution rules in football Suudy Football 29 Tue Feb 25, 2014 09:29pm
NCAA/NFHS rule differences WAWhistleBlower Basketball 6 Sat Aug 19, 2006 08:08pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1