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-   -   Taped flags (https://forum.officiating.com/football/10400-taped-flags.html)

tempestos Sun Oct 12, 2003 09:29pm

Our association recommends, but does not require, that officials cover the top of their flags with white tape. I have heard various reasons why that practice is necessary, but none are persuasive. It seems that officials at higher ranks (NCAA/NFL) don't tape their flags. What do your associations require/recommend? What are your thoughts?

TXMike Sun Oct 12, 2003 09:43pm

I tape mine so that there is no yellow showing out of my waist line. I think the yellow flag tends to have a psychological effect and I prefer not to have that effect.

FBullock Mon Oct 13, 2003 05:53am

The primary reason for NOT taping the flag is liability. If you inadvertantly hit a player with your flag and you have altered the flag with the white tape, you have a greater risk of lawsuit because you have changed it from the way the manufacturer made it. That's the world we live in.

JRutledge Mon Oct 13, 2003 09:05am

You are kidding right?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by FBullock
The primary reason for NOT taping the flag is liability. If you inadvertantly hit a player with your flag and you have altered the flag with the white tape, you have a greater risk of lawsuit because you have changed it from the way the manufacturer made it. That's the world we live in.
You might have a greater risk, but it does not mean you are going to be liable for that reason. If that is the only reason you do not do this, then you might have some other things to worry about in my opinion. I guess I will take my chances.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Oct 13, 2003 09:26am

It looks much better.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by tempestos
Our association recommends, but does not require, that officials cover the top of their flags with white tape. I have heard various reasons why that practice is necessary, but none are persuasive. It seems that officials at higher ranks (NCAA/NFL) don't tape their flags. What do your associations require/recommend? What are your thoughts?
It is not required, but many do tape their flags around here. The reasons are to keep from being seen reaching for your flag and making it obvious to the coaches, players and fans. This is the reasons we are instructed not to put the flags in our back pocket, because if you think there is a penalty about to happen, you give yourself some time to change your mind and not look obvious to everyone.

Case in point, during the Northern Illinois, Maryland game in Dekalb, IL (NIU upset Maryland). The crew that did the game was an ACC crew. I guess they keep their flags in their back pocket as a rule. Well the last play of the game had a close Pass Interference call which in my opinion should not have been called and was not called in the game. Well the commentators noticed that the official was thinking about making the call by reaching behind him and decided not to call a penalty. Part of the discussion was that "the officials wanted to make the call." Well if he had his flag in the front of his body and taped, no one would have noticed that he just decided to pass on it and it would have looked more like he was sure of his call, rather than looking like he wanted to reach for his flag.

It seems like NCAA Conferences like the SEC and ACC put their flags in their back pocket. It looks terrible, because I have seen many games in those conferences and the officials had to reach back for flags and the cameras catch this when the officials call nothing. Then the TV announcers spend the next 10 minutes debating whether a flag should have been thrown and why the official decided to not throw the flag when he reached for it. That just looks terrible in my opinion.

Peace

Patsfan2431 Mon Oct 13, 2003 09:37am

In CT, our board tapes our flags so no yellow is showing. First of all, it looks better, and second, the psych. of a coach is that if the yellow is showing, you are ready to flag everything.

AndrewMcCarthy Mon Oct 13, 2003 09:57am

I can see why the back pocket might be a bad idea but I never understood the tape thing.

You mean to tell me that if a coach doesn't see any yellow he's going to think you're not prepared to call fouls??

I think everyone pretty-much knows that the officials have flags- whether they can see them or not.

Rich Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:01am

I haven't taped mine, but one reason I've considered it seems to weight the flag some and would give me a bit more accuracy when throwing it, especially when working back judge.

Frankly, I like the little bit of yellow sticking out -- I think it looks worse having a white ball sticking out of the top of your pants, but that's just me.

Rich

PS - I keep one in my back pocket, too, but it's the second flag in case I need it. I pulled it out twice on Saturday during youth games, both for USC fouls on head coaches.

SWFLguy Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:35am

As someone said- everyone knows we have them,
so I'm thinking where you park it is a lot more
about preferences, personal or association wise.
I use a flag with the weight in the center and
keep it in my front left pocket (I'm a southpaw).
It does not stick out.
I seldom use it at U, and when I do, you know it is
a "real" penalty !

Ed Hickland Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:04am

Everybody knows we carry flags; so, what's the big deal with a little yellow showing.

I once had mine in my back pocket until a coach saw me reaching for it and withdrawing my hand. From then on it goes in the front with a ball sticking out should I need it.

My preference is to carry two flags and two bean bags for those "just in case" situations. Somehow, it seems I have only needed two flags for youth games and that was because some coach/parent got irate.

tempestos Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:23am

This is exactly the discussion I was looking for. I am with the "no taping" group. I never understood why we are trying to "hide" our flags from coaches/players/fans. They know we have them and know we throw them when we call a penalty. In close plays (where an official reaches for his flag but decides not to throw it), I think the commentators, etc. will debate the call regardless because there will be differing opinions on whether it was a foul. I also agree that the yellow sticking out looks better than the white tape - the white tape usually looks old, with some dirt, and unprofessional. I think I've seen only one NFL official with a taped flag.

TXMike Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:49am

Some folks retape it each week so it does not get old and soiled looking. It takes about 2 minutes and 3 strips of tape.

JRutledge Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tempestos
In close plays (where an official reaches for his flag but decides not to throw it), I think the commentators, etc. will debate the call regardless because there will be differing opinions on whether it was a foul.
The point that I was making was not to avoid the what the commentators say about us, but in the NIU/Maryland game, in all the highlights from the TV guys covering the game to ESPN to the local newscast, all made a comment about what the official was thinking because he reached for his flag. And when they see you reaching for a yellow object, this just adds fuel to the fire when you decide not to make a call. Especially when you are working as a wing official and the coaches cannot see my hands reach for my belt when I am facing the field. It is not full proof, but when I got yelled at and the comment was, "I saw you reach for your flag, why did you not call the penalty?" I started to tape my flag.

Now if your area decides to do it another way, when in Rome you do as the Romans do. But in my area this is a very common and acceptable practice. There really is no ulitmate right or wrong, just what is expected in your area.

Peace

stevegarbs Mon Oct 13, 2003 01:09pm

Ever wonder why no one offers for sale a penalty flag with a white ball?

It is unnecessary to tape your flag, for all the reasons given above. To me, it looks like you are too cheap to buy a new one and need to use tape to patch up an old flag that is falling apart.

Snake~eyes Mon Oct 13, 2003 01:15pm

I backpocket mine but maybe I will move it to the front because that is a very good point, the other night I reached for it and didn't pull it. I'll have to think about it.

ref18 Tue Oct 21, 2003 02:36pm

At our assoiciation meeting last night, we were told, as FBullock said, not to alter our flags in any way. By altering the flag from the way it is designed, it does create extra liability on the officials part, and I believe someone (not in my association) is facing a lawsuit for an incident that occured with an altered flag. They've even changed the design from a metal washer weight, to a bag of sand, and the bag of sand does a horrible job weighting the flag down, but with the world we live in today what choice do we have.

TXMike Tue Oct 21, 2003 02:44pm

Until someone can specifically identify where this alleged "altered flag" lawsuit is pending and provide specific details, I would submit it is ludicrous to believe putting a few strips of tape around the ball/sand or whatever makes it any more dangerous than it already is. If you are stupid enough to be using a flag with any sort of metal in it, seems to me you are in a much worse position than I. I do not doubt there might be a lawsuit pending if the alteration consisted of removing the ball or sand and replacing with a lead weight. But not the mere taping of the end of the flag.

ref18 Tue Oct 21, 2003 06:36pm

Just to let you know, until recently, our flags were manufactured with metal weights.

tempestos Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:57pm

The liability point may be relevant, however farfetched. I can see a very odd situation where a piece of the tape was loose and you you throw a flag that hits a player at or near the eye (like Orlando Brown in the NFL). If there is a loose piece of tape on the flag ball, then there would be a liability argument that you altered the flag from the original specs and that alteration caused the injury when the loose piece of tape scratched/cut the eye. I know this would likely never happen, but no one thought the Orlando Brown thing would ever happen. We lawyers think of these possibilities when analyzing potential liability.

Also, as "stevegarbs" pointed out, it is curious that I can't find any manufacturer or reseller that sells flags with a white ball on it. If it is prevalent, you would think there would be a market for such an item.

cowbyfan1 Wed Oct 22, 2003 03:03am

I would also asy the white tape is good as if the flag gets muddy, especially in the ball area, washing them gets it all clean but the ball area. Replacing/recovering white tape makes it continue to look good.

I have always put my flag in the front belt of my knickers or shorts. I have a second one in my front pocket for a possible second flag.

I use 3 bean bags tho if I am LJ on 4 man or back judge on 5 man. If crew uses white, I will use a blue bag for end of kick and white for first touching/fumbles. I keep one of each color in my belt and one in my pocket opposite of my second flag.

William C Wed Oct 22, 2003 08:30am

Our association in NC requires us to wear our flag in the back pocket. Don't ask me why. I have worn it in the front -- but we were all told we could not do that anymore. It does make it a lot easier - plus if we reach and change our minds - the whole world doesn't see it.
I really wish we could wear it in the front.

TXMike Wed Oct 22, 2003 08:37am

What is the penalty for refusing to put it in the rear pocket? I understand the need to have some degree of uniformity in our appearance but that seems to be stretching it.

William C Wed Oct 22, 2003 08:49am

The 'penalty"? Probably none - per se --- but the repurcussions would not be good.
It's not that big a deal to us -- and our assoc. is open to suggestions -- but once a policy is in place - it's policy and we do it that way --- until it's changed again.
The penalty ? No one knows - because no one wants to find out.
We have had a few guys that did things 'their way' -- and were against the way we do them -- and it's funny --those guys didn't come back .

ABoselli Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:03am

I've never had it in my pocket. I don't even like to keep a second one there. Seems like the only times I need two are for youth games.

If you're a wing official, the sidelines are always looing at your back and they'll definitely see the wheels turning in your head if you put your hand back there and then don't pull the trigger.

To me, it's just like a finger whistle vs. a lanyard. I have given myself a moment to process everything and no one is the wiser.


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