No Choice with Penalty Enforcement?

don16954 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 03:46pm

I use some of the questions discussed on this site at our association meetings, and the other members are well aware of this. Hence, the other night after a long debated discussion on an issue, I was asked to pose this on the site for other input. During a Saturday varsity game the week before, A is losing 21-6, having been scored on twice in the last 4 minutes on two 60+ yard fly patterns. A now has the ball 2nd down on B's 16 with 6 seconds left in the first half. QB takes the snap, drops back, and prior to the pass, right guard for A is flagged for holding. B1 then intercepts the pass on the 2 and returns it to the 12. During the run back, B2 is flagged for block in the back, and the clock runs out of time for the half.

The referee offers B its options, and naturally B declines the holding in order to keep the ball. (A short discussion amongst the association members that the linesmen should inform the coaches that though both are live ball fouls, it is not a double foul since there was a change of possession and B declined.) The referee then offers A the option to either accept the block in the back penalty and play one untimed down, or decline the penalty to end the half. A does not want to run another play due to being burnt deep on the past two possession by B for scores and declines the penalty. Referee signals holding on A declined, Block to back on B declined, and then signals end of quarter/half.

Some of the officials agree that this was the right protocol. Others stated that A has no choice and the penalty against B must enforced according to Rule 10.2.2. One of our older officials supported this opinion with case book p. 76, 10.2.2 Sit. A which is almost the same except A has illegal motion and B is charged with clipping after the intercept. The case book states ". . . the penalty by B2 must be enforced." The discussion at the association meeting was whether "must be enforced" means that the choice must be given to "A" as was done and that it cannot merely be forgotten/overlooked because of the change of possession and the half ending, or does enforce mean that A and the officials have no choice but to mark off the penalty and play the untimed down, even if A does not want to accept it.

As always, I thank you in advance for any and all input and support.

MD Longhorn · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 04:15pm

I think you all did it correctly.

biglaz · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 04:18pm

The block in the back on B must be enforced if team B elects to keep the ball by declining A's foul. From rule 10-2-2 ..."the team not last in possession has no penalty options."

Enforce the penalty, run an untimd down.

MD Longhorn · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 04:23pm

NF or NCAA?

Isn't there a rule elsewhere or definition that states that any penalty may be declined?

keystoneref · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 11:41pm

Sorry guys but that wasn't correct. Your protocol is this, tell team B they can keep the ball if they decline the foul on A for holding and we will enforce their block in the back from the spot of the foul. We will then have 1 untimed down. Team A has no options in this situation, you do not give them the opportunity to create a double foul. This situation is the classic "clean hands rule". B got the ball with clean hands, all the options are theirs. If the clock wasn't involved in this play we wouldn't be having a discussion. You can't change the way you would handle a situation just because you will award an untimed down. If this happened in the middle of the 1st period you wouldn't allow A to create a double foul would you?

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 11:45pm

I agree that the penalty against B cannot be declined. The rule is very clear. But the yardage for the foul can be declined, although I know of no reason why they would want to.

Rich · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 11:49pm

This is the "clean hands" provision of the rules. A has no options in NFHS play. The penalty against B will be enforced and there will be an untimed down. The reference above says all that needs to be said.

Rich

PSU213 · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 11, 2003, 12:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by keystoneref
If this happened in the middle of the 1st period you wouldn't allow A to create a double foul would you?

I don't think anyone was trying to let A "create" a double foul situtation. The original poster was asking if A could decline a penalty to avoid an untimed down (very different than a double foul). You are correct though, that A has no option--the untimed down must occur.