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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 07:47am
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Two videos

Our crew worked an 8-man playoff game yesterday. V coach sent me these two plays.

https://youtu.be/4zybWNzmlHI



False Start or Legal Motion and Encroachment? H had encroachment, R (me) had a false start. I went with the FST. Coach disagrees.


https://youtu.be/9o7qnxCiDYE



Illegal forward handoff or legal play? I believe it is illegal, but I missed it on the field.

Final score was H-66 V-26. The game was "over" 2.5 quarters before these plays.

Last edited by APG; Fri Oct 28, 2016 at 01:54pm. Reason: embed is your friend
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 08:44am
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In 1, did you call FST because the RB simulated action at the snap?

In 2 I believe the linemen would need to face is own goal line and be a yard behind LOS at some point before getting the ball via handoff. Forward/backward doesn't matter behind LOS.

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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 08:59am
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On the first play it looked like a legal shift to me. I didn't see movement elsewhere except by the center after the encroachment and nothing the back did made me think he was (a) simulating action at the snap, nor did it appear (b) to be intended to cause B to encroach. That is my assessment, but if your opinion was that the shift did either a or b, a FS is the appropriate call.

On the second play, the player that took the hand off appears to have just pivoted on his left foot to take the hand off. It is difficult to tell with the angle, but it doesn't look to me like he was at least 1 yard behind his line when he took the hand off and I'm not sure that he met the requirement of facing his own end line either. I'm not saying it was clearly illegal forward handing, but I'm leaning toward it.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 09:58am
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Thanks for the video and plays Rev...

video 1 - Since the ball was never snapped, motion (legal or illegal) does not come into play. Looks like B was in NZ before center "flinched." I would go with Enc by B. Good one (as post implies they did) for officials to get their heads together and say "what did you see?"

video 2 - According to 7.3.2a lineman must have faced his own end line (half turn) and at least is yard behind LOS when he received ball.

Illegal handing penalty: 5 yards and loss of down.

Last edited by whitehat; Fri Oct 28, 2016 at 12:32pm. Reason: clarificition
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 11:11am
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7-3-2b is not an added restriction. It provides an additional set of players that can take a forward hand off.

7-3-2a allows for a lineman to take a forward hand off, as long as the lineman has faced his end line and is at least 1 yard behind his line. There is no restriction as to which lineman can take the hand off under 7-3-2a.

7-3-2b does not create additional restrictions to 7-3-2a or otherwise modify it. It allows for an end to take a forward hand off without meeting the requirements of 7-3-2a.

For example, a tackle on the end of the line is eligible to take a forward hand off under 7-3-2b without restriction. A tackle with an end (tight or split) lined up on his side of the field, would only be able to take a forward hand off under the restrictions of 7-3-2a. In video, the player that took the hand off was not an end (I'm assuming the far side receiver was on the line as a split end) and was adjacent to the center, so 7-3-2b does not provide an avenue for him to take a hand off without meeting 7-3-2a. If that player is judged to meet those requirements, there is no foul.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 12:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner View Post
7-3-2b is not an added restriction. It provides an additional set of players that can take a forward hand off.

7-3-2a allows for a lineman to take a forward hand off, as long as the lineman has faced his end line and is at least 1 yard behind his line. There is no restriction as to which lineman can take the hand off under 7-3-2a.

7-3-2b does not create additional restrictions to 7-3-2a or otherwise modify it. It allows for an end to take a forward hand off without meeting the requirements of 7-3-2a.

For example, a tackle on the end of the line is eligible to take a forward hand off under 7-3-2b without restriction. A tackle with an end (tight or split) lined up on his side of the field, would only be able to take a forward hand off under the restrictions of 7-3-2a. In video, the player that took the hand off was not an end (I'm assuming the far side receiver was on the line as a split end) and was adjacent to the center, so 7-3-2b does not provide an avenue for him to take a hand off without meeting 7-3-2a. If that player is judged to meet those requirements, there is no foul.
Boomer, good clarification. Yes, I agree. I should have finished my sentence... a snapper and one adjacent to the snapper can take a hand off if they meet the requirements of 2a
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 12:38pm
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Originally Posted by Reffing Rev. View Post
Our crew worked an 8-man playoff game yesterday. V coach sent me these two plays.

https://youtu.be/4zybWNzmlHI

False Start or Legal Motion and Encroachment? H had encroachment, R (me) had a false start. I went with the FST. Coach disagrees.
In Fed rules, I see encroachment by B. In NCAA, also an encroachment, killing the ball, because the DL's move into the neutral zone drew the snapper's flinch, which I take to be a "spontaneous reaction charge".

#14's action is a legal shift.

Quote:
https://youtu.be/9o7qnxCiDYE

Illegal forward handoff or legal play? I believe it is illegal, but I missed it on the field.
Illegal [forward] handing of the ball in both Fed & NCAA. The rules in both are written crappily in such a way as to make it arguably impossible ever to call, but by their spirit it's a forward handoff under conditions where the receiver of it is ineligible to take possession.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 12:42pm
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Originally Posted by tjcport View Post
In 2 I believe the linemen would need to face is own goal line and be a yard behind LOS at some point before getting the ball via handoff. Forward/backward doesn't matter behind LOS.
Yes, it does matter. A backward handoff is always legal. That didn't stop some officials in our league from calling back our clearly backward handoffs to a guard in 2015, from the same misconception you had.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 01:14pm
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I've had to argue that to people in the past too. They want to apply the two types of people who can receive a forward handing in 7-3-2 to a backward handing when 7-3-1 clearly says "Any player may hand the ball backward at any time."
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2016, 02:51pm
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Clearly ENC on the defense in the 1st clip.
Clearly illegal in the 2nd.
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Old Sat Oct 29, 2016, 01:37pm
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I agree with others. Play 1 is encroachment, not a false start.

Illegal in play 2.
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Old Sat Oct 29, 2016, 08:22pm
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Yep, you're right. That was me typing before full engaged.

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