Did my R get it right?

w_sohl · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:22pm

2nd and 13 we'll say. Kid runs for three yards and gets tackled with a five yard face mask. I was pretty sure the result would be result of the run plus five yards, 3rd and 5. My R said no, he gets the run, 3 yards, the 5 yard face mask and it reamins 2nd down, 2nd and five. Was he right or was I. I couldn't find it in the rule book this weekend that would prove either him or I right.

*This is his fourth year officiating and it was my fourth game...

Rich · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:30pm

The R is right. It was a live ball foul so the down is replayed. 2nd down.

Rich

BoBo · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:32pm

You will add a 5 yard penalty at the end of the run replay the down.

w_sohl · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:47pm

Why do they get to replay the down? It is then like they got a free play, a double whammy on the defense. Not only does the offense get the down back, but they also get the result of the previous play and the penelty yardage?

jfurdell · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:55pm

NFHS rules: No loss of down provision on any face mask penalty. Treat it like any other penalty. If the runner on 1st down gains 4 yards and his face mask is incidentally grasped by the defense, it will be next be 1st & 1.

It's a safety thing... this gives extra disincentive for the defense to grab a face mask while tackling.

BoBo · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:55pm

That is why they call it a penalty.

w_sohl · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BoBo
That is why they call it a penalty.

Well this one should be called a double whammy penalty then, because they are getting penalized twice, smart *ss! ;P

w_sohl · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jfurdell
NFHS rules: No loss of down provision on any face mask penalty. Treat it like any other penalty. If the runner on 1st down gains 4 yards and his face mask is incidentally grasped by the defense, it will be next be 1st & 1.

It's a safety thing... this gives extra disincentive for the defense to grab a face mask while tackling.

Does this change at either the NCAA or Pro levels?

cmathews · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 02:04pm

This one is no different than any other live ball penalties (except the ones that come with an automatic first down). Say it is 2nd 22 from A 30, A32 runs the ball to the A40, during the run you have holding on B25, it will be 2nd & 2 from the 50 yd line, even if the defensive holding occured at A 31...

MD Longhorn · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2003, 03:42pm

W_sohl - first, no need to name-call.

Second - they are not getting penalized twice. If you commit a foul during the other team's play, they did not get to complete their play as it may have evolved had you not cheated. Otherwise - you could cheat on purpose to gain advantage... Say 3rd and 20, offense lined up to pass. You tackle each and every possible receiver and hold them so they cannot go forward. Holding - 10 yards. Under your thoughts, it'd be 4th and 10. That wouldn't make any sense. Same logic applies to all other live-ball fouls.

w_sohl · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 16, 2003, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by mbcrowder
W_sohl - first, no need to name-call.

First, didn't appreciate "BoBo's" obviously sarcastic response to a legitament question from a first year official. He may speak to his/her parents or children like that, but I don't know him/her for them to respond like that.

Quote:

Originally posted by mbcrowder
Second - they are not getting penalized twice. If you commit a foul during the other team's play, they did not get to complete their play as it may have evolved had you not cheated. Otherwise - you could cheat on purpose to gain advantage... Say 3rd and 20, offense lined up to pass. You tackle each and every possible receiver and hold them so they cannot go forward. Holding - 10 yards. Under your thoughts, it'd be 4th and 10. That wouldn't make any sense. Same logic applies to all other live-ball fouls.

Second, thank you. This is the best explanation I have gotten. It makes perfect sense now. As I stated in my original post this was only my fourth game so I am still learning alot and appreciate the help I get from this forum.

jfurdell · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 16, 2003, 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by w_sohl

Quote:

Originally posted by jfurdell
It's a safety thing... this gives extra disincentive for the defense to grab a face mask while tackling.

Does this change at either the NCAA or Pro levels?

I believe the NCAA and NFL count the down on 5-yarders by the defense, but also give an automatic first down on 15-yarders. In NFHS both fouls are the repeat-the-down kind (no automatic first down).

MD Longhorn · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 16, 2003, 02:02pm

I can answer for NCAA - you don't count the down on ANY live ball foul (unless the foul calls for loss of down), including this one.