Resume Play

The_Rookie

We have a common foul on A24 for a hold in the lane. B not in bonus. Then during the dead ball right after the foul is called. A12 and B10 mix it up resulting in a double ejection for fighting.

Question: How do we resume play? Where is the location of the throw-in?

We had a 30 year vet coming in fast and over rule how to resume that a 3rd year official made.

Raymond

Who committed the foul? You said A24 but then said A was not in the bonus.

Whichever, what could it be other than the POI prior to the fight? That should be rhetorical. If an official rules otherwise they should be apologizing within 15 minutes of the final horn after being shown a citation.

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The_Rookie

Raymond wrote
Who committed the foul? You said A24 but then said A was not in the bonus.

Whichever, what could it be other than the POI prior to the fight? That should be rhetorical. If an official rules otherwise they should be apologizing within 15 minutes of the final horn after being shown a citation.

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Should read B not in bonus...

Vet thinks POI is using AP for a throw in at div. line opposite the table! 😮

Mike Goodwin

The_Rookie wrote
Should read B not in bonus...

Vet thinks POI is using AP for a throw in at div. line opposite the table! :eek:

The vet was correct - but only through the end of the 2004-05 season - when the current rule was put into place the following year.

Per the relevant parts of 4-36:

ART. 1 . . . Method of resuming play due to ... a double technical ... foul as in Rule 4-19-8.

ART. 2 . . . Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods: a. A throw-in to the team that was in control: 1. In the frontcourt at one of the four designated spots nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred. (Diagram 5)

A few casebook play illustrate, but the rule itself is sufficient.

Ancient reference:
https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/26761-point-interruption-clarification.html#post314497

"Rules are easy. Rules changes are hard." -that famous official from a little corner of Connecticut.

Nevadaref

Mike Goodwin wrote
The vet was correct - but only through the end of the 2004-05 season - when the current rule was put into place the following year.

Per the relevant parts of 4-36:

ART. 1 . . . Method of resuming play due to ... a double technical ... foul as in Rule 4-19-8.

ART. 2 . . . Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods: a. A throw-in to the team that was in control: 1. In the frontcourt at one of the four designated spots nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred. (Diagram 5)

A few casebook play illustrate, but the rule itself is sufficient.

Ancient reference:
https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/26761-point-interruption-clarification.html#post314497

"Rules are easy. Rules changes are hard." -that famous official from a little corner of Connecticut.

You did a great job of providing the historical context and how the rule has changed, but then you cited the wrong part of the POI rule. The relevant part for this situation is part b.

Mike Goodwin

Nevadaref wrote
You did a great job of providing the historical context and how the rule has changed, but then you cited the wrong part of the POI rule. The relevant part for this situation is part b.

Shoot. The ball was already dead in the OP, so yes, 2b applies.

Mike Goodwin

Nevadaref wrote
You did a great job of providing the historical context and how the rule has changed, but then you cited the wrong part of the POI rule. The relevant part for this situation is part b.

Shoot. The ball was already dead in the OP, so yes, 2b applies.

4-36-2 . . . Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods: b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such. [emphasis added]

SNIPERBBB

The_Rookie wrote
Should read B not in bonus...

Vet thinks POI is using AP for a throw in at div. line opposite the table! :eek:

Unfortunately it seems like a lot officials think that POI =AP.. We're almost never going AP here unless it was during a missed try or jump ball..has anyone ever hand a double foul or IW dking a jump ball there is another possible way to get there but I'll skip thst one

ilyazhito

SNIPERBBB wrote
Unfortunately it seems like a lot officials think that POI =AP.. We're almost never going AP here unless it was during a missed try or jump ball..has anyone ever hand a double foul or IW dking a jump ball there is another possible way to get there but I'll skip thst one

The other way is a ball that goes out of bounds simultaneously touched by opponents. It isn't common, but is one that it would do well to remember. This is one reason why we might have a re-jump at the beginning of the game or overtime.

SNIPERBBB

ilyazhito wrote
The other way is a ball that goes out of bounds simultaneously touched by opponents. It isn't common, but is one that it would do well to remember. This is one reason why we might have a re-jump at the beginning of the game or overtime.

That's not it. If we had that call, the ball would be already dead. You can't have a live ball simultaneous touch turn into an AP unless it wasa situation already listed where no TC exists.

ilyazhito

NFHS Rule 7-3 says otherwise. "If the ball goes out of bounds and was last touched simultaneously by two opponents, both of whom are inbounds or out of bounds, or if the official is in doubt as to who last touched the ball or if the officials disagree, play shall be resumed by the team entitled to the alternating-possession throw-in at the spot nearest to where the out-of-bounds violation occurred". There is no mention of team control in Rule 7-3.
NCAA Men's Rule 6-4 refers to a ball that was "last touched simultaneously by two opponents, both of whom were inbounds or out of bounds, or when the officials are in doubt as to who last touched the ball".

NCAA Women's Rule 6-4.1(b) is identical to the NCAA Men's rule.

SNIPERBBB

ilyazhito wrote
NFHS Rule 7-3 says otherwise. "If the ball goes out of bounds and was last touched simultaneously by two opponents, both of whom are inbounds or out of bounds, or if the official is in doubt as to who last touched the ball or if the officials disagree, play shall be resumed by the team entitled to the alternating-possession throw-in at the spot nearest to where the out-of-bounds violation occurred". There is no mention of team control in Rule 7-3.
NCAA Men's Rule 6-4 refers to a ball that was "last touched simultaneously by two opponents, both of whom were inbounds or out of bounds, or when the officials are in doubt as to who last touched the ball".

NCAA Women's Rule 6-4.1(b) is identical to the NCAA Men's rule.

I

I understand the rule fine. You're not understanding my post. We're talking about double fouls that occurs during a live ball and where they can go straight AP.. simultaneous touching is always going to be a deadball thing.if we have a a looseball scenario where there a simultaneous touch and before the ball goes out of bounds and there's a double foul, we go POI, I. This case it would be whoever had TC at the time or if not TC because of a try or during a jump ball, we e go AP...

BillyMac

SNIPERBBB wrote
I understand the rule fine. You're not understanding my post. We're talking about double fouls that occurs during a live ball and where they can go straight AP..

Now I'm getting confused.

A double foul that occurs during a live ball does not result in an alternating possession situation, but a point of interruption situation, unless there is no team control.

SNIPERBBB

BillyMac wrote
Now I'm getting confused.

A double foul that occurs during a live ball does not result in an alternating possession situation, but a point of interruption situation, unless there is no team control.

go back to where I said that POI !=AP. Theres only certain situations where POI will result in AP. The situation he brought up was one where we already had an AP throwin so the POI after a double foul was already known.

BillyMac

SNIPERBBB wrote
Theres only certain situations where POI will result in AP.

No team control.