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curlingrocks Tue Jul 28, 2015 08:56pm

Resume
 
I'm updating my professional resume and thinking about adding a section about officiating. What other things can/should be included?

• Work in high pressure situations making quick, decisive, and accurate decisions and while resolving conflict
• Communicate effectively with coaches, players, officials, and game day personnel to ensure success
• Maintain a demanding schedule with paperwork, travel, and availability while successfully balancing a full time job
• Enforce rules, policies, procedures, and protocols in accordance to NCAA or NFHS rules
• Lead crewmembers in pregame and postgame meetings and evaluations

AremRed Tue Jul 28, 2015 08:58pm

Should I put that I worked the 2013 4th grade CYO Championship game on there?

curlingrocks Tue Jul 28, 2015 09:00pm

I'm asking a serious question, but thanks....

AremRed Tue Jul 28, 2015 09:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlingrocks (Post 965321)
I'm asking a serious question, but thanks....

You're welcome? :o

Rich Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:49pm

Resume
 
Forgive him. He's our resident (redacted ).

AremRed Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 965329)
Forgive him. He's our resident (redacted ).

:cool:

I'd actually like to hear if anyone has put that stuff on their resume. I can see the benefits, especially if applying for something in the sports field but perhaps that is something better left off and perhaps brought up during the meeting. There are a lot of people out there who just don't get what we do (pretty much everyone except other officials) so I can see it not helping.

Rich Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:06pm

I would not put anything on a resume that would make a potential employer think I'm not focused on my job. Cause few do get it.

JRutledge Wed Jul 29, 2015 07:30am

I always put my officiating business on my resume'. I get money and the people I deal with often add to my interest to companies. I get often interview requests often because this stuff is on my resume'. It is not most consistent job that I have done for the last 20 years. It is usually the thing they bring up or talk about anyway and someone played or went to a local high school so they ask me questions based off of that. Never a distraction or they would not give me the interview. Then again I am in sales and changed careers and got many offers because of my officiating background.

Peace

jpgc99 Wed Jul 29, 2015 08:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 965331)
I would not put anything on a resume that would make a potential employer think I'm not focused on my job. Cause few do get it.

If I was unemployed and desperately seeking a job, I agree with this position.


However, if you currently have a job and are simply looking for a better job, I would include one line about officiating. I put it under 'Hobbies' and simply list "Collegiate & High School Basketball Official (with years worked)"

From experience, this is often something that is brought up in the interview, with most people genuinely interested in it. I would emphasize that work is the priority and in no way will officiating get in the way of my work. In fact, I say it helps me because it is a release from work stresses and helps me come back to the office the next stay refreshed and re-charged.

I also believe it is important to establish early on that I do officiate, because I may request PTO on short notice to travel to a game. I don't mention this in the interview, but I've laid the ground work...

JRutledge Wed Jul 29, 2015 08:39am

If I am filing taxes on my income and filing other paperwork that says I am an official, there is no way in "heck" I am putting it in a hobby line (that no one cares about anyway). I am usually turning down positions and my officiating is front and center on my resume'. Then again most of the jobs I have had or get are in sales or management and they want to know that you can deal with conflict, deal with people, run a business or department and can think on your feet. And I have not been unemployed at any one time before I left college because of officiating.

Peace

BillyMac Wed Jul 29, 2015 04:37pm

Whose Line Is It Anyway ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 965336)
... no way in "heck" I am putting it in a hobby line

Avocation ???

JRutledge Wed Jul 29, 2015 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 965361)
Avocation ???

Nope.

Peace

jpgc99 Wed Jul 29, 2015 05:13pm

Not sure why you are so adamant about it not going in a hobby line. The amount of money I make officiating vs my career absolutely classifies officiating as a hobby, for me.

I'm in a business leadership role in a corporate office. There is no benefit to including my officiating as part of my "work experience" because it is irrelevant. Managing situations on a basketball floor is vastly different than building corporate teams and making business decisions.

JRutledge Wed Jul 29, 2015 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 965364)
Not sure why you are so adamant about it not going in a hobby line. The amount of money I make officiating vs my career absolutely classifies officiating as a hobby, for me.

I'm in a business leadership role in a corporate office. There is no benefit to including my officiating as part of my "work experience" because it is irrelevant. Managing situations on a basketball floor is vastly different than building corporate teams and making business decisions.

I would not say I am adamant, but I am in business as well and I want to know the people I might hire are doing something that has a skill that I can use to my advantage. I know that many of us my be older and it might have been a long time for use to work at a fast food joint or some kind of restaurant or service job that paid us at best minimum wage. If we would have only had job experience at that time of our life, why would you not include on your resume' something that most people cannot do and would not admittedly have the balls to do in the first place? Maybe if you are not an accomplished official I could see not even including it. But if I was an NCAA official or someone that has worked high level varsity ball, why would I not include it?

I guess it depends on what kind of job you want too. Since I have made more money at officiating than I did any other "extra" job I think it should be included and often was the bridge between one job to another.

And what I have noticed in the past year as I went on to get a professional license in a field, the officiating is what the interviewer wanted to talk about and talk about mostly even with similar background in another field. I have actually turned down more jobs than being rejected and I attribute that to my background in officiating. After all what is an interview? It is selling yourself.

I guess I would rather talk to someone that had an unusual and interesting position over someone that was a delivery boy for Domino's Pizza.

Peace

BillyMac Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:33pm

Why Not ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 965361)
Avocation ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 965363)
Nope.

Avocation: Noun:
1. a subordinate occupation pursued in addition to one's vocation especially for enjoyment
2. something a person does in addition to a principal occupation, especially for pleasure;
3. an activity that you pursue when you're not at work

BillyMac Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:39pm

Skill Set ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 965365)
... why would you not include on your resume' something that most people cannot do and would not admittedly have the balls to do in the first place ... the officiating is what the interviewer wanted to talk about and talk about mostly even with similar background in another field.

High School Basketball Official is listed under Employment on my resume. When I interviewed for my present position, as an Environmental Chemical Analyst, the president of the company spent more time discussing my role as a basketball official than discussing my background as a science educator. He was a former high school basketball player, and a big time collegiate basketball fan. I got the job.

JRutledge Wed Jul 29, 2015 09:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 965368)
Avocation: Noun:
1. a subordinate occupation pursued in addition to one's vocation especially for enjoyment
2. something a person does in addition to a principal occupation, especially for pleasure;
3. an activity that you pursue when you're not at work

I know what the word means. I have never heard anyone suggest you only put your primary jobs on a resume'. You put all your jobs. Some people have multiple jobs at one time. That is not an unusual situation for many people in this country.

Peace

Camron Rust Thu Jul 30, 2015 03:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 965374)
I know what the word means. I have never heard anyone suggest you only put your primary jobs on a resume'. You put all your jobs. Some people have multiple jobs at one time. That is not an unusual situation for many people in this country.

Peace

That is not what resume experts recommend. A potential employer is going to stop reading and move to the next resume if you include a lot of stuff unrelated to the specific job being filled. I'm not saying you shouldn't include the officiating info, but it may or may not be something that will help you get the job. If not, it should probably be left out so unless your job history is pretty weak or don't really have anything else to put on it.

Rich Thu Jul 30, 2015 07:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 965381)
That is not what resume experts recommend. A potential employer is going to stop reading and move to the next resume if you include a lot of stuff unrelated to the specific job being filled. I'm not saying you shouldn't include the officiating info, but it may or may not be something that will help you get the job. If not, it should probably be left out so unless your job history is pretty weak or don't really have anything else to put on it.

For the vast majority of people, officiating is not what pays the mortgage. I know it doesn't pay mine.

There is a risk here -- people who put officiating stuff on a resume run the risk of having someone read it who thinks "he's going to want to leave work early" or "he won't be available to be 'on call' in the evenings" or "he won't want to travel for the job and miss games." Or they could be amongst those idiots who think all referees are turds.

In my limited experience, I've had to answer more questions like this than have fascinating discussions on the positive aspects of my officiating. The last time I interviewed for a job (and this was 11 years ago), I talked openly about my officiating. They offered me a job, but told me that they had a strict policy about working a second job and that officiating was in a gray area that many in the company would not appreciate. I had another job at the time, didn't like the vibes of this, and stayed where I am -- and have been there now for another 12 years.

I hire people. If I was your manager or interviewer, it would be a big plus for me. I know what many officials bring to the table. Many don't. Choose carefully.

(My LinkedIn page includes officiating, BTW. People will look there even if I don't have it on my resume.)

Hugh Refner Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:08am

Maybe a good compromise here would be to list officiating as an "avocation" on your resume rather than a "job".

bob jenkins Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 965364)
Not sure why you are so adamant about it not going in a hobby line. .

I think Jeff's point is that if it is a "Hobby" to the IRS, then you pay taxes on the income, but can't deduct the expenses.

I am not sure that where it's listed on your resume has any effect on how the IRS will treat it.

To the OP -- I think it depends on your age / experience and the type of position for which you are applying.

JRutledge Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 965381)
That is not what resume experts recommend. A potential employer is going to stop reading and move to the next resume if you include a lot of stuff unrelated to the specific job being filled. I'm not saying you shouldn't include the officiating info, but it may or may not be something that will help you get the job. If not, it should probably be left out so unless your job history is pretty weak or don't really have anything else to put on it.

The skill we do as officials and preach are things most jobs would want. Unless you work in a hole and never deal with anyone, you are doing something as an official that can and will help you in any position. We talk about professionalism, conflict management or resolution, schedule setting, working with other people, being on time, being in leadership positions and in my case working with the larger state association extensively, I want anyone I might work with to know that.

And when our economy crashed in this country and we had people being laid off left and right, it was officiating that helped people bridge the gap. I would rather have something there that said I was working and making money than maybe 2 years without a job might be a good idea to mention I was not unemployed so to speak. Just like you working as an official can undermine your employment checks if you are taking income of some kind if you do not report the income. Then I am not going to tell the people that are potentially hiring me and I have not been sitting on my behind? To each his own I guess.

Peace

Bad Zebra Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 965383)
For the vast majority of people, officiating is not what pays the mortgage. I know it doesn't pay mine.

There is a risk here -- people who put officiating stuff on a resume run the risk of having someone read it who thinks "he's going to want to leave work early" or "he won't be available to be 'on call' in the evenings" or "he won't want to travel for the job and miss games." Or they could be amongst those idiots who think all referees are turds...(My LinkedIn page includes officiating, BTW. People will look there even if I don't have it on my resume.)

Exactly the same for me. I've been in sales all my working life and I've been in position to hire people. With a stack of resumes to sift through, a manager is looking for reasons to weed some out. Any avocation requiring multiple nights a week on the fringe of the workday just make it an easy reason to push them aside for the reasons you list. I've never included it on my career resume, but I have a separate officiating resume. Also listed as "Skill" on on my LinkedIn page.

Welpe Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:10pm

When I was first starting out in my professional career being able to point to my officiating experience was a positive thing. Now I don't honestly have the room for it on a resume and I have enough professional experience that I don't need it.

I used to maintain a list of my officiating achievements on my LinkedIn page until I had a couple of people that I consider mentors tell me I might want to consider taking them off because "nobody cares". Outside of a hiring manager that might be an official also, I think that is generally true. I will probably add officiating back as an activity on LinkedIn.

I don't think there's anything wrong with maintaining officiating on a resume if it does truly help you. It doesn't for me anymore so I don't.

Curling, back to your original question, I like what you have there but I'd personally not include this line:

"Maintain a demanding schedule with paperwork, travel, and availability while successfully balancing a full time job"

Like others have said, this would lead me to wonder if what you doing is so intensive that it detracts from your work. Now being an official, I know that's not necessarily true but I think it hurts more than it helps.

Rich1 Thu Jul 30, 2015 07:55pm

Probably not relevant
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlingrocks (Post 965318)
I'm updating my professional resume and thinking about adding a section about officiating. What other things can/should be included?

• Work in high pressure situations making quick, decisive, and accurate decisions and while resolving conflict
• Communicate effectively with coaches, players, officials, and game day personnel to ensure success
• Maintain a demanding schedule with paperwork, travel, and availability while successfully balancing a full time job
• Enforce rules, policies, procedures, and protocols in accordance to NCAA or NFHS rules
• Lead crewmembers in pregame and postgame meetings and evaluations

None of this tells me anything pertinent to skill level or experience related to a specific job you would be applying for. It sounds more like resume BS. When I review resumes I am looking for statements like "increased sales by 20% over previous year by doing XYZ" or "reorganized supply acquisitions process resulting in a $380,000 savings annually for my division" and similar action statements detailing results, not generalities. The skills you have listed -- working under pressure, making decisions, communicating effectively, maintaining a schedule, doing paperwork, following rules and procedures, and leading others -- are qualities I would expect any qualified applicant to have if they have made it to the interview stage.

I agree with the others who say that unless you are applying for an officiating related job then I would leave this off. I do not include any "second" jobs on my resume unless they directly relate to the field I am applying in. I think it makes you look less dedicated and clutters up the resume which may be all someone needs to put it in the NO pile. Stick to the important stuff and keep it simple.

JRutledge Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 965409)
None of this tells me anything pertinent to skill level or experience related to a specific job you would be applying for. It sounds more like resume BS. When I review resumes I am looking for statements like "increased sales by 20% over previous year by doing XYZ" or "reorganized supply acquisitions process resulting in a $380,000 savings annually for my division" and similar action statements detailing results, not generalities. The skills you have listed -- working under pressure, making decisions, communicating effectively, maintaining a schedule, doing paperwork, following rules and procedures, and leading others -- are qualities I would expect any qualified applicant to have if they have made it to the interview stage.

Wouldn't you ask those kinds of questions in the interview or need to know after you have them face to face?

And I can tell you as someone in sales, I do not care what actual sales you do if my company has a different product or has different customer service goals. I am going to train you anyway and want to know if you are mostly teachable and have appropriate goals.

Rich1 Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 965413)
Wouldn't you ask those kinds of questions in the interview or need to know after you have them face to face?

And I can tell you as someone in sales, I do not care what actual sales you do if my company has a different product or has different customer service goals. I am going to train you anyway and want to know if you are mostly teachable and have appropriate goals.

I was just using those as examples. I would hope that there would be enough "proof" of successful experience in the resume that I would not need to ask. I prefer to have I candidate expand upon what they have done. For me, there is a difference between 10 years of management experience and 10 years progressively increasing profitability as a manager. I want to see accomplishments on a resume, not general skills or time spent in a position.

JRutledge Fri Jul 31, 2015 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 965424)
I was just using those as examples. I would hope that there would be enough "proof" of successful experience in the resume that I would not need to ask. I prefer to have I candidate expand upon what they have done. For me, there is a difference between 10 years of management experience and 10 years progressively increasing profitability as a manager. I want to see accomplishments on a resume, not general skills or time spent in a position.

As I said before, this must be really job specific. I have never been asked that deep about a previous job. Usually all I have been asked is to confirm if I worked at a particular place or asked if I had that background. I usually get asked about my officiating and asked if I ever worked their high school or the school their kids go to. It usually takes over the conversation or interview.

Peace


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