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-   -   What would you do? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99945-what-would-you-do.html)

AremRed Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor (Post 964864)
Years ago I gave a flagrant T to a kid based on what I thought was intent. Still regret it as in hindsight, I'm not 100% sure. Usually the only T's I regret are the ones I don't issue.
New refs please don't do what Mregor and I did. I too ejected a kid (A1) a couple years ago for fighting for taking a swipe at another kid's (B1) hand cuz A1 was being held. I ejected A1 and gave B1 a tech for "instigating" a fight and it was a bitch to explain to the coaches. Still probably the worst decision of my basketball career.

OKREF Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 964869)
Until I see a video, I won't commit either way. Tripping a player intentionally is dangerous. I'm most likely going with a T, but flagrant is an option. Would I call it? Probably not. But I'd consider it.
If you will tell me how to embed I will try. Or I can send you the link and you can get it.

OKREF Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:24am
<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/121476347" width="500" height="282" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

Play is it the 31:50 mark 1:35 left in the second quarter

Rich Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:54am
Intentional personal. Not even a second thought in my mind seeing the video.

I consider the technical incorrect, by rule.

OKREF Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 964877)
Intentional personal. Not even a second thought in my mind seeing the video.

I consider the technical incorrect, by rule.
Yea, I remember sitting in the locker room at half and talking about that, wished I would have had an intentional instead.

Adam Tue Jul 14, 2015 09:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 964878)
Yea, I remember sitting in the locker room at half and talking about that, wished I would have had an intentional instead.
A cheap lesson to learn.

OKREF Tue Jul 14, 2015 09:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 964880)
A cheap lesson to learn.
Other than it counting as one of his two, really the only difference is where the ball is inbounded. I know the Technical is more punitive.

Adam Tue Jul 14, 2015 09:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 964870)

Now if you want to be precise, your reply above contains a generality which should be cleaned up. Not just any act which causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting would get classified by rule as fighting itself, but rather only an unsporting act which causes that retaliation. So if an official did not deem the attempted trip to be unsporting or an actual trip involving contact (perhaps the official only charged a personal foul), then any fighting retaliation would not cause the original fouler to be automatically DQ'd by rule.
Interesting.
B1 swipes at A1's foot and misses (official rules this an unsporting technical foul), A2 retaliates with a punch.

B1 swipes at A1's foot and makes contact (intentional foul), A2 retaliates with a punch.

We only get to toss them both if B1 misses.

Welpe Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 964877)
Intentional personal. Not even a second thought in my mind seeing the video.

I consider the technical incorrect, by rule.
Agreed.

Thanks for posting the video, that cleans things up quite a bit.

BryanV21 Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:36am
I have an intentional foul here.

stripes Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 964877)
Intentional personal. Not even a second thought in my mind seeing the video.

I consider the technical incorrect, by rule.
+1. Seeing the video, it is an easy play.

BillyMac Tue Jul 14, 2015 04:40pm
Intentional Personal ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 964877)
Intentional personal. Not even a second thought in my mind seeing the video. I consider the technical incorrect, by rule.
Agree 100%.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.NsnE...95&w=168&h=123

BillyMac Tue Jul 14, 2015 04:45pm
Who Shoots The Free Throws ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 964881)
... the only difference is where the ball is inbounded.
The only difference? Are you sure?

Intentional Personal: Only fouled player (unless injured, or otherwise not eligible to play) allowed to shoot the two free throws. Ball inbounded at spot closest to where foul occurred.

Technical: Any player, including a substitute coming off the bench, can shoot the two free throws, even two different players. Ball inbounded at division line, opposite table.

Nevadaref Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 964906)
The only difference? Are you sure?

Intentional Personal: Only fouled player (unless injured, or otherwise not eligible to play) allowed to shoot the two free throws. Ball inbounded at spot closest to where foul occurred.

Technical: Any player, including a substitute coming off the bench, can shoot the two free throws, even two different players. Ball inbounded at division line, opposite table.
Billy,
I believe that he is referring to how the events unfolded in this specific case. For in this case the player who was fouled actually attempted the awarded technical foul FTs, therefore, the only difference was in fact where the ball was inbounded subsequently.

BillyMac Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:17pm
Different Penalties ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 964907)
... the player who was fouled actually attempted the awarded technical foul FTs, therefore, the only difference was in fact where the ball was inbounded subsequently.
If that's the case, I'm alright with that, but I'm still leaving my post up to remind rookie officials that there are subtle differences between penalties for intentional personal fouls, and technical fouls. Hopefully, OKREF won't mind.


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