Louisiana Officials
 

Not just basektball, but this forum is getting the most traffic. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Would like to hear from La. officials.

No Raises for La. Officials

I fully support the stance taken by the Louisiana officials in this. I hope that they don't work this Fall, if the schools don't reinstate their rainout pay and give them the small raise requested.

I tried to get some feedback once before: https://forum.officiating.com/basket...louisiana.html

Now that the"great recession" has passed and municipalities are collecting more property taxes to fund the schools, you are going to see more of this type of activity. Teachers salaries have begun to creep up (in Florida anyway) so it should follow that coaches, AD's and officials soon follow suit. It'll be interesting to see how far the LHSAA is willing to push this...No officials for football season? That could get ugly.

Maybe they can get parent volunteers for the games. Parents think they can call the game better than officials anyway. :rolleyes:

In an area in which I was officiating basketball, the volleyball officials decided to refuse to work the HS season, if they were not given a pay raise. The HSAA met the challenge to their authority by simply asknig for volunteers from the stands to officiate the games. It wasn't great, but the games/season went on, ant the officials eventually conceeded.

There will be officials not working the "big games" that will gladly walk over the backs of other officials. Happens all the time.

One year we tried to get a raise for our adult umpiring league. Almost half of the umpires would've kept right on working and some tried to shame us for thinking about not working.

Don't know where you're located but THAT would be entertaining to watch.

^^^ This is how NYC solved the problem for public school officials. When the teachers get a raise, so do we. I don't know how they managed to get the deal but it's in place. We just received a raise last season and I think another is coming up this season or next.



No offense to volleyball officials but if you get bad officiating in a volleyball match chances are no one will get hurt. Bad officiating in a football or basketball game can lead to kids getting hurt and/or fights. Heck, even good officiating can't stop those things from happening sometimes. If the LA folks stick to their guns something ridiculous will happen in a game officiated by volunteers - if the LHSAA goes that route - someone will be sued and the problem will solve itself.

That might work for volleyball. It would not work out nearly that well for football.

Though what will likely happen, and we saw as much before in Louisiana, is that enough officials will keep working anyways and undermine the efforts of the others.

If the local associations do not assign games, then the schools are going to have to figure out how to get in touch with the officials who will continue to work. There's a good chance that the associations will kick those officials out if they work.

I wouldn't bet on anything right now. I do know that in Texas, IF (and that's a big if) officials didn't show up to a large number of games on the first Friday night of the season, whatever demands TASO (in this case) had in all sports would be satisfied by 8:00 a.m. Sat. morning.

And that might be the best thing to happen. When they have screw ups and people working games they are not ready for, that can also send a message. That was the claim when the NFL used replacements.

Peace

For basketball, if they ever use volunteer parents for officials, a group of officials should attend the game as spectators and, together, chant "Call it both ways" over and over. Also, they should all get up together, hold out a pair of glasses and yell, "Hey ref - you wanna borrow my glasses?"

Oh yeah, don't forget to yell every time they misinterpret a rule. :D

"It's all about the student-athletes." What nonsense. I cringe upon hearing this phrase because we all know it's not true.

I hope the LHSOA doesn't budge. Let the fanboys officiate. What a fun story that will be.

Fixed it for ya.

Easy Peasey Lemon Squeezy ...
 

Same thing here in Connecticut. No more late night contract negotiations in smoke filled rooms. No more picket lines. No more water cannons.

Plain and simple, it's about the money for those who run the state organizations and the school district athletics.

Since Mr. Bonine is now a central figure in the Louisiana situation it would be informative to take a look at this part of a recent newspaper article:

By BARTT DAVIS
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL


Contractual obligations in his home state will prevent Bart Thompson from fully taking over as the executive director of the Nevada Interscholastic Activities Association until June 15.
Were it completely up to Thompson, he’d already be settling into his new office in Reno.
Thompson, who was selected to lead the NIAA by its Board of Control in March, had his contract finalized during the board’s meeting Wednesday at Sam’s Town. Thompson was given a three-year contract worth $130,000 per year. He also will receive a stipend of $10,000 per year for vehicle usage.
“I’m thrilled. I’m excited to get started,” Thompson said. “I wish I could get started tomorrow. I want to get in the saddle and be able to ride.”
Thompson, an assistant executive director for the Utah High School Athletic Association, replaces Eddie Bonine, who left the NIAA to head the Louisiana High School Athletic Association.
In his final year, Bonine made just more than $150,000 plus a $10,000 car allowance and an $1,800 longevity stipend.


There is also this tidbit from another news source:
Bonine still getting paid?
Now-former Executive Director Eddie Bonine had nearly $2,000 of unpaid sick leave left when he bounced to Louisiana for the same job in March.
The Board voted not to pay Bonine for the sick leave but will compensate him for his remaining vacation time.

==============
Bonine started around $115K and received a $20K annual raise following his first three years. So this has all occurred during the past six years. Meanwhile the officials in Nevada received a single 4% raise which was delayed by FOUR years despite being contractually obligated (because exactly as some other posters have written is the case in their home states the NV contract calls for the officials to receive the same raise as the state workers, but one year later).
Yep, the Executive Director took a $20K raise for himself while informing the officials associations that state budgets were tight and that they needed to defer their raise until more prosperous times, then gave a song and dance routine (the school superintendents must still approve it--I can't [exactly what the La officials are being told]) when after three years the associations decided the time had come for the increase to go through, which delayed the officials money for an additional year.

Sure seems like the funds which were due the officials went directly into his own pockets!

Try to calculate a $5 raise for every official for every event. It will make $20k look like a very small number. Just for playoff games in our state a $5 increase would cost the state $50k across all sports. Add in regular season games and that number grows significantly.

1. On a $50 game fee a 4% raise is $2.
2. NV has about 1500 officials in the entire state for all sports.
3. Say that there are 2,000 basketball games in a season. Perhaps half are 3-person. So $6 more per game for those and around $4 more for the 2-person contests. That's $10K. Of course, doing this for all sports will come out to much more than $20K, which is my point. The schools were happy to collude with the ED to stonewall the officials as it was well worth it to them to pay him a portion of what they should have been paying the officials. They saved a bunch of money and he made an extra $60K over three years. The La people better do some research and know what they are encountering.

While I certainly think officials should be paid a fair amount, Is even a 10% increase really so important that you would shut down for a season? Maybe it is me but doing the math from last season that percentage increase would provide $250.

Ok...I realize that is a camp for a high school official. However, I officiate because I enjoy it. I don't want to do it as a volunteer but if I just cover my expenses for the season I am happy. In fact, I don't even track that to see if I even break even. The game fees I get just go into a vacation savings account. I try to hit one or two out-of-town camps each summer so my wife can tag along and veg by the pool and we make it a little weekend getaway.

I don't know...maybe I am just weird.

At some point the officials have to draw a line. They've been fighting for this for YEARS.

That was going to be my question: How long have they gone without a raise.

Battery, it's no secret we do this because we're warped enough to enjoy it but I'm sure the money you've had to put out for that vacation fund hasn't stayed level throughout your years of officiating. Neither has the cost of food, putting gas in your car, etc.

It looks like there was a similar situation in 2011:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...le-strike.html

I'd like to know what has happened from 2011 to 2015 (if anything). At some point, they have to take a stand. The cost of most things increases over time, so a yearly raise is actually less of a "raise" but more keeping your earnings consistent when adjusting for the increase of costs.

To go one year, two years, maybe even three years without a pay increase doesn't seem like much, but at some point there has to be an increase or you are losing money.

Absolutely has not. And if the think they fight is important enough...go for it, hope they win.

But the cost of getting to a golf course and playing 18 has gone up as much or more...but I still play occasionally and have no hope of ever recovering any of that money :p

I know many officials really count on the money from their games and work enough (games and sports) at a high enough level that they more than offset their cost. For me, it is just not that important. And while I certainly don't think it is a big enough reason, I would just as soon let the schools spend that money on something else. I understand it is not that much, but my daughter-in-law is a teacher and every little bit helps.

If the money went to the teachers, I'd agree. But it doesn't.

Has the cost of basketballs gone up?

The coaches salary?

Admission fees?

Scorer's table costs (esp. if they are teachers at the school)?

Uniform costs?

So, the officials are paying for all of that?

Yes. It is not just 10% for one year that is the problem. They've been mistreated so long that they'd need a 50%-100% increase to catch up with other states.

They should be getting the same raises as those making the decisions on how much they get paid. The ADs/Principles are probably getting 3-5% every year, probably fought for by their teacher's union. For them to not give the officials anything year after year is, at best, hypocritical. They're really only for the benefits of unions and good pay as far as it helps them but for not for anyone else.

This "logic" can be used to 1) ask the same question for ANY amount -- unless it could be shown that x%, and not x-1 or x-.01, is the threshold; and 2) keep on accepting low pay indefinitely.

At SOME point, you have to take a stand and say, "I'm not interested in working at that rate."

They are making $95 per game. That's more than most states so there isn't much catching up.

That's football playoff rate for the highest classification.

Most of what is being discussed here are basketball pay rates, which are quite low compared to most areas.

Regular season football rates are ok, but not outstanding.

Here are the basketball rates:

8.8.4 Basketball Officials’ Fees as adopted by the LHSAA in all classes:

1. Regular Season - Varsity Game (2 person officiating crew)
Certified Rated Official …………….……....... $45.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official ………………......... $37.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ………………....... $35.00 per official, per game

2. Regular Season - Varsity Game (3 person officiating crew)
Certified Rated Official …………….……............. $40.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official …………….….............. $32.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ……………................. $30.00 per official, per game

3. Playoff Games - Varsity Game (3 person officiating crew)
Certified Rated Official …………….…........ $65.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official ……………........... $58.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ……………......... $52.00 per official, per game

4. The LHSAA shall pay each official $75.00 per game in the Ladies’ Top 28 Tournament and Boys’ Top 28 Tournament, plus travel pay.

Taken from here:

http://lhsaa.org/uploads/handbook/Se...ficiating1.pdf

And here's football:

8.8.5 Football Officials’ Fees as adopted by LHSAA schools in all classes:
1. Regular Season
Certified Rated Official …………………… $85.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official ………………….. ...... $70.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ………………… $60.00 per official, per game
Clock Operator ………………………….… $40.00 per official, per game

2. Playoff Games
Certified Rated Official …………….…….......... $95.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official ………………............ $80.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ……………….. $65.00 per official, per game
Clock Operator …………………………... $50.00 per official, per game

3. As adopted in all games, the crew referee’s fee shall be increased by $15.00.

4. Officials working games in the Superdome Classic shall be paid $100.00 per game and clock operators shall be paid $75.00 per game, plus travel pay.

They pay the Referee $15 more per game. That is just comical.

The 85/70/60 rate for football would be on the lower end for varsity games in Texas. Most schools above 3A (median classification), except for those in mostly urban districts who's games are not well attended, have pay rates ranging from higher to much higher than that.

This is really one of the problems Texas faces -- effective pay rates for varsity games involving large schools can be quite good (assuming the district pays what they are supposed to). Subvarsity rates, however, are another story. Rates for other sports need to increase. Football officials that work 0-4 subvarsity dates per year don't really care about the fee and may not be willing to risk losing even one Friday night fee to take a stand -- either for football subvarsity or other sports at all levels.

Agreed. I just moved back from there after 6 years and even the varsity rates were all over the place. Our TAPPS pay for varsity was a flat $85 which was good but our rates working smaller varsity games were all over, and often at the whim of the ADs. We worked more than a few small towns with absolutely packed stadiums and came away with $70 checks (including travel).

The only thing I'm going to really miss about working football in Texas was using NCAA rules. You can keep everything else.

We're talking basketball.

$35-$45 for a 2-person varsity game is just silly.

The amounts here in Oregon are $56.75 for smaller schools and and $63 for larger schools....about 50% more for the same job. Plus, we get mileage.

The post-season bump is $5.

We don't have 3-person yet, so I can't compare that.

Those are piss-poor rates.

The "Land Of Steady Habits" ...
 

Last year's Connecticut fees (two person games): Varsity Fee: $93.19, Sub Varsity Fee: $60.45.

That's to make up for having to live in Connecticut. :)

Billy, doesn't Conn. have a setup where a percentage of that goes to the assignor, or is $93.19 actually what you net?

For the purposes of this thread and continuing to put the staggeringly low La. rates in perspective, it's $78 2-man varsity, $66.30 3-man, $56 subvarsity (including middle school) in Massachusetts.

The Commish ...
 

Local ("little corner ...") board (not the assignment commissioner) gets a 7% assignment fee (on top of annual dues of $125.00).

Local assignment commissioner earns an annual salary of $29,925.00. Local assistant assignment commissioner earns an annual salary of $2,000.00. Both salaries are paid by the local board as two line items in our annual budget.

High Taxes, High Cost Of Energy, Etc. ...
 

True. Very high cost of living, but it's worth it, Connecticut is a great state. Four beautiful seasons. Mountains. Forests. Beaches. Museums. Music. Art. Great hospitals. Great public schools. Great colleges. Easy access to New York City, and Boston. If you like lots of people (urban, suburban), live in the central, or southern, part of the state. If you like peace, and quiet (rural), live in one of the two "quiet corners" (northwest, northeast).

The problem is it is still in the Northeast and drops below 30 in the winter. :cool:

And Unless You Work For Ebenezer Scrooge ...
 

We have two new inventions here, in Connecticut, central heating in our homes, and heaters in our cars.

Yeah, these inventions are expensive to use, with the high cost of energy in the state, but Connecticuters can afford to use them, being that we earn the highest median incomes in the country.

I'm actually a thousandaire. It's true.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.9aft...95&w=101&h=101

Angry LHSAA chief blasts officials association | News | The New Orleans Advocate — New Orleans, Louisiana

Statement from Bonine is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard.

Undeniable Fact of Life: Whenever an elected official or bureaucrat says "It's about the kids", 100% of the time, it's not.

I think the LHSAA should recruit volunteer fanboys to officiate. :D

In all seriousness, maybe the best thing that can happen is for this to cut into the regular season. The LHSAA will learn pretty quickly how important the officials are.

The appeal to pathos brought a chuckle from me.

I know this is basketball but I'm looking at the Louisiana volleyball rate per crew and thinking yikes.Our brothers and sisters in Louisiana deserve a big time raise-I feel bad for the kids who are being held hostage in all this but these officials need to be valued as the professionals they are.I'm sorry but $37.50 an official for a varsity volleyball crew is just disgraceful and so are their rates in every sport.

You guys keep watching, I live in Baton Rouge and this past week has gotten nasty. Bonine ran his mouth Wed on radio, then came back on thursday and was more diplomatic. Sunday the LHSOA is having a board meeting then next Wednesday there is a meeting in New Orleans for ALL oficials statewide to hear what the next plan is.

Nevada Ref, can you tell me how you felt Bonine treated you. He said on the radio that he helped get yall a 4% raise. How true or instrumental was he in doing that?

I also would like to know why does the state have the legal right to set the price for the entire state? That seems to me to be one of the biggest issues here.

Peace

Basically because it says so in their handbook. That's why being able to sign contracts with the schools is important. It make us trully independent contractors. The LHSAA also uses the handbook to say they can only consider raises at their annual January meeting. Get to the January meet then raises are soundly rejected. So, Officials have to hope and wait whole year to get it before LHSAA again. A walk out of some type has been the only tactic to motivate the LHSAA to approve raises. It's the only card to play with the way things are set up.

I don't know about that. Even that sounds like a collective bargaining agreement to me.

An independent contractor should be able to negotiate his/her own fee schedule with each customer.

In theory, sure. In practice, I can tell you what my conference pays and schools in the conference agree to pay that amount and not more, except for some very special exceptions. So either you take the $60 or you leave it (for example).

When I read that claim in the article I thought that it was an inaccurate spin on the situation.
The truth is that the NV contract has contained a provision from long before Bonine was the NIAA Exec Dir stipulating that the officials get the same raise as the state employees (max of 5%) one year later. I will have to check my records for the exact years, but I believe that NV state employees got a 4% raise in 2009, so the officials were contractually due the same for the 2010-2011 school year. During the Summer of 2010, Bonine (then going into his 2nd or 3rd year with the NIAA) asked the officials associations to postpone the raise due to the poor economic situation hitting the state until the financial situation improved. Graciously and foolishly (looking back on it) the officials associations agreed and a memorandum of understanding was drafted to that effect.
At the end of his 3rd year Bonine, then signed a new 3-year contract which contained approximately 16% raise for himself. (I believe his salary went from 115K to 135K.) That was four times what he had just asked the officials to forego! The officials thought "hey, what is that?" Therefore, during the Summer of 2013 the officials groups informed Bonine that they wanted their raise. He gave the same answer as he just gave the La officials that school budgets had already been made on June 1 and that it was too late to do it for the coming school year. He also said that he didn't have the power to grant such and that it would have to be voted upon by the school superintendents. Why the superintendents would possibly have the ability to vote on something that was already in a written contract seemed ludicrous to me. However, there was not enough support for strike/walkout amongst the association leaders. Most felt that $2 per game (4% of a $50 game fee) wasn't worth striking or going to court over. So the NIAA was duly informed that the officials would no longer be continuing with the memorandum of understanding to postpone their entitled 4% raise and that the rates would increase for the 2014-2015 school year (last year). Prior to that year the NIAA Board of Control and whatever superintendents were consulted approved the 4% increase, but they didn't really have any ability to not do so. Bonine departed in the Spring of 2015 shortly before his second three-year contract expired by giving 90 days notice to the NIAA Board of Control, a provision of his contract. It came out recently that in addition to his salary, he had been receiving a 10K vehicle allowance and an $1,800 longevity raise (an extra stipend for remaining in the position year after year). So he effectively hosed the officials out of a contractual raise for either four or five years through the ploys of "the schools don't have any money for a raise" and a delay tactic, while simultaneously taking a significant personal raise! During 2014-2015, he also gave each of the other NIAA staff salary raises of about $5,000, which amounts to a $20K annual expenditure. Meanwhile the NIAA has continued to cut back on the number of officials traveling for the postseason State tournaments and continues to only have four teams in those events, when it used to be eight in some sports, such as basketball. In my opinion, it is a farce for Bonine to claim that he got the NV officials a 4% raise. All that he did was orchestrate the postponement of it on behalf of the schools for several years. Most of us were glad to see him go. He tries to bully people and gets angry when he doesn't get his way. Seems that he just lost his cool on the radio down there.
The La association's position that their raise needs to come this year and not next is the right way to go as they are not falling for Bonine's delay tactic. I'm pleased to see that they have more strength than the NV people did in being willing to strike.
PS Both Bonine and his son were/are pro baseball players, so someone should suggest that he help the kids by going out and calling games himself. Of course, he's already on salary, so he wouldn't need to get any game fees.
PPS I'm sure that the guy who's just in this for the kids is making at least $150K down there as that state is far more populous then NV.

What is happening right now is absolutely ridiculous but the schools have been asking for it for two decades by not giving these people raises.I would hate to be a senior student athlete caught in the middle of this.What Louisiana principals are saying is basically that any person off the street can come in and do a better job than a licensed official.That's insulting to me and I hope to all of us.The Louisiana principals value their teachers as professionals so why not us? I know as an HS official I don't officiate for the money however I do expect to be reasonably compensated for my afternoons work.Those rates at least to me do not qualify as reasonably compensated to me

2. Regular Season - Varsity Game (3 person officiating crew)
Certified Rated Official …………….……............. $40.00 per official, per game
Approved Rated Official …………….….............. $32.00 per official, per game
Registered Rated Official ……………................. $30.00 per official, per game


uhm - no thanks

I make $50 plus a catered halftime spread running the playclock at FB games.

Live in my state. There is no set fee for game officials in any sport. The schools hire the officials themselves, or in some cases in the metro areas they are given to an assignor, however the schools can pay whatever they want. Currently the going rate for 2 high school games is $120 for two person mechanics. $90-$100 for 3 person.

OKREF-are schools responsible for their own Playoff assigning of officials or is the governing body involved?

Every school makes the playoffs. The governing body assigns the teams into 3 team districts for the smaller classes and 2 team districts for larger. We have a double elimination playoff system. For the 3 team districts, if you lose the first game you are eliminated. For these districts the teams involved have a meeting and compile a list of officials ranked 1-15. The state then assigns 2 referees from those lists to the districts. After the district rounds all assignments are made by the state office.

He's a politician. He makes good money so what does he care. All he's good for, like most politicians, is heating up a room or venue. Anyone who believes him or think his intentions are altruistic I have a battery powered flashlight to sell you.

tl;dr -- He is a piece of garbage.

Here are the links to the Eddie Bonine interviews that LouisianaDave mentioned on Wednesday and Thursday

pt 1 (Wednesday)-http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wnxx/media/mp3/Eddie_Bonine_07_08_15-1436361130.mp3

pt 2 (Thursday)-http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wnxx/media/mp3/Morning_Drive_07_09_15-1436450465.mp3 (go to the 52 minute mark to hear Mr.Bonine's comments)

LouisianaDave-do you think there will be a fall season in LA this year? It looks fairly gloomy right now and I feel terrible for the senior student athletes but the principals are getting what they deserve if the strike does happen.

Which is actually not that good. It was $90 for an OKC metro varsity DH back in 2008-09 (3-person). So now it's up all of ZERO dollars six years later. Meanwhile, just up north in the KCK metro, it's $140-$150 for a varsity DH (and often you only get a single, but I'm ok with $70 for a single game!).

But the OKC rate, while not great, still seems rich compared to LA. Shame on The Pelican State, and good for the LHSOA for standing up for itself.

Here's how I see this playing out: There will be games missed,it's up to the principals to determine how many.I see on that first day where no games are played several dozen angry parents marching on their principals offices saying just pay the money so our kids can play.The principals after a few days of not being able to get work done cause of this mess will say enough is enough and pay the proposed increases.Is Louisiana a pay to play state does anyone know? LouisianaDave will the meeting Sunday be available online anywhere?

Love it! That puts the "it's all about the kids" platform right back squarely on the shoulders of the LHSAA and its director.

If it truly is all about the kids, I don't think a mid-year change to the constitution to give the officials their first raise in 20 years is too much to ask.

Anyone know if headquarters NFHS is watching this closely?

The issue is primarily with the principals which I have no idea how they have a say in officiating rates.Here the section makes the rate schools pay we all live happily ever after.It would be interesting to know how closely if at all NFHS headquarters is watching this situation.

I doubt the NF even cares about this as they have nothing to do with how officials are assigned or even the standards that officials have to live by overall. All the NF has any say over (and that is if the states care) are mechanics and rules of each game. Even if the NF takes a position, it is not going to change what happens here.

Peace

A tentative agreement appears to have been reached.

Neither side is saying publicly what that agreement entails as of yet.

Do you think they got any compensation for this year?

You can put whatever you want in a handbook, it doesn't necessarily make it legal. I'm not a lawyer and am not trying to pass this off as anything other than lay opinion informed by a few minutes of googling, but this sounds like collective bargaining, not contract negotiations. This seems to fail multiple parts of the IRS guidelines for testing independent contractor status. Now who's going to challenge it, especially in light of a potential settlement? Who knows. But seems like LHSAA is in grave danger of being found to be an employer and there's a LOT of back pay, workers' comp, etc at risk.

A lot of independent contractor laws are state laws and classifications too. I know that this would put this organization in big jeopardy if they were in my state. We had an organization that got popped for paying officials directly and not paying the proper taxes and benefits. I am also wondering about some level of price fixing as well considering that these are fees for the entire state. At least in my area a conference sets the fees and each conference can pay the same fee, but not every school in the state will pay the same for sure. I see a lot of problems with this arrangement and it will take the right person or group to go to court to possibly fight this out on some level.

Peace

NV ref, I have a feeling that LHSOA leadership has drank the kool-aid. As you guys know they have a confidential agreement in place but neither side is giving out specifics. I believe that this was done to ensure football happens.

There was a statewide meeting held last night in new orleans that wasnt sparsely attended. Basically all we know know is that an agreement is in place, should be approved immediately by the executive council all before Football starts. When the council approves the raise is effective immediately. But the catch is that the principals will have to ultimately approve it in their January convention when they historically have vetoed every raise. If they veto it, then we go back to the money we are at now.

So in short Footbal and Volleyball will probably go on, but late january if the principals renege then Basketball, soccer, Wrestling, baseball and softball will have to unite.

LHSOA head confident agreement with LHSAA will be finalized | Sports | The Advocate — Baton Rouge, Louisiana

this is the latest article from last nights meeting

This sounds like idiots negotiating with idiots.

I'm betting unfortunately that we will be right back at this point next year.No one can force the principals to approve the agreement in January and they are the biggest problem

Agreement Reached Between Louisiana High School Officials and State Athletic Association - LHSOA

hot off the presses

LouisianaDave-I am happy to admit that it looks like I was wrong.Hopefully the Principals will sign off on the raises and we will never see a day like this again.

Seems like most officials will more or less realize a $10/game raise. Still not great, except when you look at it from a percentage increase standpoint in which case it's pretty good. This is a step in the right direction.

However, still believe a BB payscale, such as it is, encourages too much 2-person. If I'm a principal, I can save $30 per game, and besides the officials who are strictly money-oriented (and unfortunately many are) will prefer a 2-person game check. Sigh.

Just for comparison, in North Dakota, our fees are:

Class A Basketball (18 min halves): Varsity $73.50 - JV $40.50
Class B Basketball (8 min quarters): Varsity $71.50 - JV $40.50

**Rates are the same whether it is 2 or 3 person crews. Nearly all varsity games are 3 person crews.

Football Varsity: $77 - 5 person crews
Football JV: $50.50 - 4 person crews

All the rates went up for the next 2 seasons. They were basically $2-$3 less per game from 2013-2015.

That differential from JV to V is huge. It must be tough keeping enough guys on board to do the JV games with such a pay difference.

I like the big gap. It encourages people to strive to advance to the varsity level.
My local area has the opposite problem. With only a $7 difference and often the varsity refs only getting a single game, there are several people who prefer the "easy" and low-key frosh & JV games, plus being home at a reasonable time for dinner, to the varsity work. The pay gap isn't enough to make them want to move up.

Rich and I talked about this earlier this year, but the way in which low supply and high demand for officials increases game fees is fascinating. Not so much because of supply and demand itself, but because these high game fees tend to exist in parts of the country with the lowest per capita household incomes. Why? Because there are so many rural school districts, each with their own varsity teams. Big urban schools or small rural ones, they all get the same number of games.

If you want lots of opportunity and you like to get paid handsomely, the far upper Midwest and Great Plains are where to move. I don't know about the intermountain West, but I imagine it's not too bad out there, either.

We're Number One ...
 

Connecticut game fees for 2015-2016: Varsity Fee: $94.63; Sub Varsity Fee: $61.39

2014 Per Capita Personal Income: State Rank #1 Connecticut ($60,658)

We agree completely on this. I assign for 22 schools and each school has their stable of officials who have (1) been doing this for years and (2) have no desire to work varsity games. Close to home, early start time.

People think I'm joking when I say I think they should raise the varsity rates and leave the JV rates alone, but I'm completely serious.

I think a gap is a good idea too, but the size of that gap above is more than I think is reasonable.

There are a lot of people that will never be Varsity capable officials. Our toughest set of games to cover is the Freshman/JV set due to the number of them and the time of day (most are at 5:45 with some at 4:00). We need numbers of officials just to get those covered. Lower pay just doesn't do it and it makes the assignors job very difficult.

As a Varsity official, I wouldn't really be interested in helping cover the lower level games if the pay that poorly. I don't do it for the money, but I also don't do it for peanuts.

Touché! There are exceptions to every rule. Yes, the urban Northeast isn't too bad when it comes to rates. I remember when I was in Rhode Island the killing those officials made, especially considering the less-then-motivated job they did. I hear officials in the NYC metro make heaps of cash, too. But then again it must be all that much harder to advance in an area with lots of registered officials.

Maybe not for you, but perhaps it works in other areas. The gap is really determined by local factors.

And I'm never going to be an Admiral, but that doesn't mean I have the right to be paid like one.

That isn't a problem due to the difference in pay between sub-varsity and varsity. What you have is a problem caused by the amount offered at the sub-varsity level. Apparently, people in your area feel it is too low.
The bottom number could be raised in order to attract more frosh & JV officials for afternoon games while at the same time maintaining the same gap with the varsity pay.
For example, if you currently have $40 (sub) & $70 (Varsity) changing to $50 & $80 (keeping a flat $30 gap) or $50 & $87.50 (keeping the 1.75 ratio) are both legitimate ways of addressing your issue. Of course, your area would need to convince the schools to spend more to fix the problem. Nothing demonstrates to schools more clearly that there is a lack of officials than not having any for some contests and informing the schools that they will have to provide their own personnel for those games.

Ask Billy where Connecticut ranks in terms of cost of living...for that matter all of the Northeast including NYC. I've lived in the Hartford, Boston and Orlando metros. I contend that my $55 varsity fee in Florida is a better rate than $94 in CT & Mass. or $100+ in NYC

To bring this discussion back to Louisiana officials, I would like some additional information on the tiered pay structure. The new schedule has three categories, each with its own game fee.
Please post the rationale for this system as opposed to one rate for all officials working any particular level.
Please post the particulars for qualifying/advancing through the different levels.
Are there other states using this tiered pay system? What are your thoughts on it?

Nevada, there used to be 3 tiers, now its down to 2. Certified and approved.

The major difference is based on a test that is made up from the LHSAA office.

The 3 tiers were 70-79 Registered, 80-89 approved and 90-100 certifed.

Now its two being 70-84 registered and 85-90 certified.

I think the rationale is basically get in the rule book, learn the rules and you will be compensated. A few years ago, they implemented a meeting percentage requirement along with a mandatory camp that must be attended once every 2 years.

This was in response to making the officials better trained and more accountable in order to justify the raise that was given in 2010. But it was also in response to punish officials bc we didnt work one night during the season in response to them voting down the raise to begin with.

Thanks for the quick response.
1. Do you mean 85-100 is Certified now?
2. I'm surprised that the classification is determined solely by a written test score and that there are other factors such as years of experience, a fitness test, or an evaluation of a game.
3. Under what conditions is your exam given?: online, open-book, etc.?

I'm asking for details because I wish to push for such a system here.

It's despicable to pay HS officials different amounts for doing the same job.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The point is that maybe they aren't doing the same job.

Questions:
Is the guy with 12 years more valuable to crew than the guy with four who just moved up from JV?
Is the person who scored an 80 on the rules exam providing the same service to the schools as the guy who scored 96? Which people would the schools rather have?
What about physical fitness? If one guy can run a mile in 7 minutes and it takes another 10, are they both performing equally on the court?
If a veteran helps out by taking a Frosh or JV contest with a first or second year official, do you think that they will be providing equal service?

If the lower classified official truly is pulling his own weight, then it is imperative that the association's evaluation and classification system detect that and properly place him.
In the end, people who dedicate the time to do certain things which are conducive to quality officiating will be rewarded for it (study the rules, work on physical fitness, go to instructional camps, etc.) and those who don't put in the effort will get what they deserve. The important aspect is that the system must be open and achievable by anyone in the group (except perhaps for the newbies--1st and 2nd year refs).

So are you saying that we should be paid for doing a lower level game the same way we are paid for a varsity game? If that is the case I do disagree with that totally. One might generate more revenue the other one might not. And if there is a difference between 2 person and 3, you are not really doing the same job. For one varsity players are usually bigger, faster and stronger and the coaches you are dealing with are not the same either.

If that is not what you are suggesting, then I apologize in advance.

Peace

Some schools will hire the cheaper officials in a system like this.

A varsity slot in a game should pay a certain fee. If a person is qualified to work that position, he or she should be paid the fee.

And no, I never once said a JV game should pay the same as a varsity game. Matter of fact above in this thread I advocated a meaningful gap between the levels.

At the HS level, I absolutely agree. I know some college conferences have tiered systems where the R gets more than the U's (Big 12 is one of them, I believe) but I'm not sure if this is commonplace or not.

Tiered system isn't based on who is the R and who are the U's. Each conference sets their own criteria. A game may have 3 guys on the same tier or 3 guys each on a different tier. Many conferences do this. It helps the mid major and smaller conferences get some of the so called big names to work their games because it allows them to pay a higher fee than they do for most of the guys working those games.

Ahhhh. That actually makes very good sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Cost Of Living ...
 

And your contention would be wrong. Close, but almost only counts in horseshoes, and hand grenades.

From an online cost of living calculator (below):

You are currently earning $94 in Hartford, Connecticut as a Umpire, Referee, or other Sports Official. You need to earn $76 to maintain the same standard of living in Orlando, Florida.

Bad Zebra does have a valid point. You should see my monthly electric bill. Of course, I just turned my air conditioner on for the first time this season this past Sunday.

Connecticut has the fifth highest cost of living, only New York, Alaska, California, and Hawaii are higher. Florida has the 22nd highest cost of living.

We have a group of people the feel the same and want to stay close to home. I believe the reason for our increases is that it is hard to get officials in our area for a few reasons: (1) People don't want to put up with the BS (2) People can't sneak out of their job early to work the games (3) Many of our games over 60 miles to get to making it a late evening (4) People's children are in many more activities now than when I was a kid so they don't have the time.

I know in the last 5 years the cost of living in ND has skyrocketed due to the oil activity. My house here is smaller than friends of mine in the twin cities and theirs is much less (especially when you add in our real estate taxes and specials). An average house in our larger towns is now $350K - $400K. With property taxes of $4700 and specials of $20K added to your escrow, they payment really jumps up.

The gap is being discussed at length. I believe they will leave varsity rates the same during the next 2 year rate lock but raise the JV rates to narrow the gap a bit.

I'm sure that some schools will hire the lower tier officials in an attempt to save money, but I'm also certain that other schools will strive to only hire the top-tiered guys. Additionally, there would be some rather unhappy parents and perhaps coaches when it comes out that school X is purposely not hiring the best available officials, especially if a kid gets injured. The AD won't like answering to that probe.

Several college conferences now pay on a tier system. It is a way to entice top quality officials to work their games. I believe that competition at the HS level for the best officials would be positive.

I'm absolutely positive that due to the shortage of officials at the HS level, assignors are sometimes forced to put people on games for which they aren't truly qualified, so just going by the criterion of "if assigned" won't cut it.

I'm a high school assigner. I don't even want to pay travel for the reason I posted above -- schools will start questioning why I'm hiring guys from a longer distance.

My point is this -- currently officiating is a fixed cost. I'm against anything that makes it (even partially) a variable cost.

By any criteria I would benefit from such a system as an official monetarily, and I'm still not interested.