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-   -   Too many show up...including assigner! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99825-too-many-show-up-including-assigner.html)

Matt S. Thu May 28, 2015 09:00pm

Too many show up...including assigner!
 
This is a career (16 years) first:

I show up to ref a pair of college summer league games, and in walk three other officials...including the man who assigns the league. He tells me, 'you know you're not supposed to be here.' I show him his email to me, he apologizes after realizing he messed up, tells me 'he'll take care of me later this summer,' and proceeds to work the games.

It's only 2 games, it's just $40, and I live close by, but it just felt lousy. Would any of you pushed back? I'm new to the area and certainly don't want to burn any bridges.

SCalScoreKeeper Thu May 28, 2015 09:11pm

I'm not sure how I'd sit on this one.Did you have to ask for time off work from your regular job to work this league only to have your assignor take your spot? Then I'd be a little miffed even if I did live nearby.

BayStateRef Thu May 28, 2015 09:16pm

No way would I push back. Accept his word that he will take care of you. But I also would be looking for other assignors who may be more organized and who may have had the class to recognize their mistake and give up their fee so you could work the games you were assigned.

Raymond Thu May 28, 2015 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 962999)
This is a career (16 years) first:

I show up to ref a pair of college summer league games, and in walk three other officials...including the man who assigns the league. He tells me, 'you know you're not supposed to be here.' I show him his email to me, he apologizes after realizing he messed up, tells me 'he'll take care of me later this summer,' and proceeds to work the games.

It's only 2 games, it's just $40, and I live close by, but it just felt lousy. Would any of you pushed back? I'm new to the area and certainly don't want to burn any bridges.

The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

What else does he assign basketball-wise in the area?

ODog Thu May 28, 2015 09:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 962999)
It's only 2 games, it's just $40 ...

I know it's just summer ball and likely running time for the most part, but that seems CRAZY LOW for an adult league ... for anything, really.

But no, being new to the area, I wouldn't have pushed back either.

Matt S. Thu May 28, 2015 10:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODog (Post 963003)
I know it's just summer ball and likely running time for the most part, but that seems CRAZY LOW for an adult league ... for anything, really.

But no, being new to the area, I wouldn't have pushed back either.

Well, it is 3-person, so if they budget $60/game, that's in line with what I've seen in other areas.

To my knowledge, this is all he assigns...I know he does not assign any of the regular season college ball here, so I'm not too worried...just mildly annoyed, especially as a new guy here.

AremRed Fri May 29, 2015 01:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 963002)
The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

Yup.

Nevadaref Fri May 29, 2015 03:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 963005)
Well, it is 3-person, so if they budget $60/game, that's in line with what I've seen in other areas.

To my knowledge, this is all he assigns...I know he does not assign any of the regular season college ball here, so I'm not too worried...just mildly annoyed, especially as a new guy here.

I believe that you now know the reason that this summerball is all that he assigns. I would not work for him in the future.

Rich Fri May 29, 2015 09:32am

The $40 in his pocket was worth more than your opinion of him.

Me? I'd let you work and watch / observe you.

Run, don't walk.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri May 29, 2015 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 963002)
The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

What else does he assign basketball-wise in the area?


BNR:

I agree with you 100%. As the assigner he should have honored his email and gone home.

I don't know the assigner can take care of him later in the season because any games he assigns to Matt S. would have been assigned to him anyway. I hope everybody understands my reasoning. The fact that Matt S. has a copy of the email means the email is a contract and Matt S. could force the issue about being paid for the games no matter how many more games the assigner gives him the rest of the Summer.

Furthermore, if the assigner was contracted, then email could be interpreted as a contract between Matt S. and the league could press the issue with the league to be paid by the league.

Either way the assigner is a real piece of work.

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Fri May 29, 2015 09:56am

Chalk it up to the "game." There are always people that do not have the right values or the same values others have. I would just make a mental note of this, go home and the next time this guy wanted my help, I would not be as available to that assignor. Now unless that person is a major assignor or your main assignor that might be another issue, but around here I would be "on to the next."

Peace

LRZ Fri May 29, 2015 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 963010)
The $40 in his pocket was worth more than your opinion of him.

Me? I'd let you work and watch / observe you.

Run, don't walk.

This would have been a wonderful resolution. And giving up $20/game in the future doesn't seem a great sacrifice, to me.

BatteryPowered Fri May 29, 2015 11:02am

Maybe it is because I have no desire to work anything more than HS ball (I started too late anyway). Maybe it is because a summer/rec assignor can have virtually no impact on my HS schedule. Maybe it is because I am in my late 50's and don't give a rat's patoot. Maybe it is a mix of all three.

After showing him the email and being told that I would have told him "Either you honor the assignment you gave me tonight or don't bother giving me games in the future because taking the game away now just proves the kind of professional you are."

But then...that's just me. :o

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri May 29, 2015 11:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered (Post 963020)
Maybe it is because I have no desire to work anything more than HS ball (I started too late anyway). Maybe it is because a summer/rec assignor can have virtually no impact on my HS schedule. Maybe it is because I am in my late 50's and don't give a rat's patoot. Maybe it is a mix of all three.

After showing him the email and being told that I would have told him "Either you honor the assignment you gave me tonight or don't bother giving me games in the future because taking the game away now just proves the kind of professional you are."

But then...that's just me. :o


My sentiments exactly.

MTD, Sr.

jpgc99 Fri May 29, 2015 12:36pm

I don't know where you're at in your career or what your aspirations are. With that said, the only summer games I work are camp or games assigned by an actual coordinator of officials (or a well-respected confidant of an actual coordinator of officials).

I doubt the guy you encountered meets this requirement. You learned that he is unorganized, unprofessional, and rude.

If this happened to me, I'd go home and look at how many more games this summer I have assigned by him. If it's a small amount, I'd probably finish the season out and try not to ruffle any feathers (especially since you have just moved to the area). I would block all other dates and decline any future assignments from him. If I have more than a handful of games, I'm turning them all back and asking to be removed from his group outright. Again, it depends on your aspirations and the local politics, but I don't see much good from working these games.

If you are new to the area, you need to find the assignor for the level you are qualified to work. Whether it is high school, small college, etc. find the assignor and ask what you have to do to get on staff. Work those games and get seen by the right people. The guy you encountered, I can assure you, is not the right person.

Bad Zebra Fri May 29, 2015 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 963002)
The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

This. If this is his response to one of his mistakes for a meaningless summer game, imagine how well he'd look out for you with a real serious game or issue on the line. A real crap move on his part... avoid him if ya can in the future. If you can't avoid him, file it away for future use if he ever needs a favor or help out of a jam.

bainsey Fri May 29, 2015 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 963002)
The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

Agreed. I think it would have been classier to own up and bow out.

Adam Fri May 29, 2015 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayStateRef (Post 963001)
No way would I push back. Accept his word that he will take care of you. But I also would be looking for other assignors who may be more organized and who may have had the class to recognize their mistake and give up their fee so you could work the games you were assigned.

This. One hundred times this. But I've got a feeling I wouldn't be available for him later in the summer. He's shown that his word is meaningless.

Matt S. Fri May 29, 2015 05:46pm

An update
 
First, I appreciate and respect all your comments.

I got an email from him this morning--apologizing again for his mess up--and offering me three games next Thursday. (he's basically assigning on the fly)

As easy as it would be to say no, he is on the same college staff as me--and our college assignor is the one who sent off an email blast saying to contact him to work this league.

Long story short, if I wasn't trying to meet the officiating community around here, I wouldn't bother taking the games...and I may not in the future...but for a one shot deal (and a good way to get ready for camp), I figured there was no harm in running away from him just yet.

Adam Fri May 29, 2015 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 963045)
First, I appreciate and respect all your comments.

I got an email from him this morning--apologizing again for his mess up--and offering me three games next Thursday. (he's basically assigning on the fly)

As easy as it would be to say no, he is on the same college staff as me--and our college assignor is the one who sent off an email blast saying to contact him to work this league.

Long story short, if I wasn't trying to meet the officiating community around here, I wouldn't bother taking the games...and I may not in the future...but for a one shot deal (and a good way to get ready for camp), I figured there was no harm in running away from him just yet.

When I moved to a new city a few years ago, I took all the games I could get for the same reason. I eventually dropped a couple of assigners. You eventually figure out which BS you need to put up with, and which BS you can part with.

Welpe Fri May 29, 2015 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 963002)
The fact that he worked instead of you tells me all I need to know about this guy.

Absolutely. He should've done the right thing and rectified his screw up by taking himself off of the game.

Texas Aggie Fri May 29, 2015 11:27pm

Quote:

the only summer games I work are camp or games assigned by an actual coordinator
This, plus they have to almost threaten me before I work them.

But I'm pretty content and not trying to get evaluator gigs at these camps like many guys.

rockyroad Sat May 30, 2015 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 963045)
First, I appreciate and respect all your comments.

I got an email from him this morning--apologizing again for his mess up--and offering me three games next Thursday. (he's basically assigning on the fly)

As easy as it would be to say no, he is on the same college staff as me--and our college assignor is the one who sent off an email blast saying to contact him to work this league.

Long story short, if I wasn't trying to meet the officiating community around here, I wouldn't bother taking the games...and I may not in the future...but for a one shot deal (and a good way to get ready for camp), I figured there was no harm in running away from him just yet.

Sounds like you are handling things quite well. Work these games for this guy and build your reputation in the area as a hard-working, got-their-backs kind of an official and just let this one go away. The guy screwed up (twice) but you making a stink about it would really do you no good. Once you are "established" in the area, then you can be a little more choosy.

Adam Sat May 30, 2015 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 963064)
Sounds like you are handling things quite well. Work these games for this guy and build your reputation in the area as a hard-working, got-their-backs kind of an official and just let this one go away. The guy screwed up (twice) but you making a stink about it would really do you no good. Once you are "established" in the area, then you can be a little more choosy.

Excellent advice. Handling this stuff professionally is important.

bainsey Sat May 30, 2015 10:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 963045)
As easy as it would be to say no, he is on the same college staff as me--and our college assignor is the one who sent off an email blast saying to contact him to work this league.

It sounds to me like he's trying to make amends. Saying "no" only risks creating hard feelings. No-one needs that.

JRutledge Sun May 31, 2015 12:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 963045)
First, I appreciate and respect all your comments.

I got an email from him this morning--apologizing again for his mess up--and offering me three games next Thursday. (he's basically assigning on the fly)

As easy as it would be to say no, he is on the same college staff as me--and our college assignor is the one who sent off an email blast saying to contact him to work this league.

Long story short, if I wasn't trying to meet the officiating community around here, I wouldn't bother taking the games...and I may not in the future...but for a one shot deal (and a good way to get ready for camp), I figured there was no harm in running away from him just yet.

The good political thing is to work the games he gave you. It really makes no sense to keep a grudge over something he quickly is apologizing for. And he sounds more like a fellow official, not just some big time assignor. These guys make mistakes from time to time. Again, chalk it up to the game and move on with your life.

Peace

Adam Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 963069)
It sounds to me like he's trying to make amends. Saying "no" only risks creating hard feelings. No-one needs that.

Maybe, but IMO he's doing it wrong.

JRutledge Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:24pm

Then what should he do Adam?

Peace

Adam Mon Jun 01, 2015 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 963138)
Then what should he do Adam?

Peace

Note that none of this is what the OP should require. I agree that what the assigner is doing is sufficient. But let's be clear, all he's doing is apologizing. I have never understood why the promise of future games is considered some sort of peace offering. Would he not have gotten those games otherwise? Are they somehow better than the games he would have gotten otherwise?

The fact is the OP lost money that day.

What should the assigner have done after it was too late to let the OP work? Offer to pay him for one of the games he showed up for? If we show up to a game and the game gets cancelled, the school pays us anyway. If we show up to a game and the assigner cancels (due to too many officials), the assigner should pay.

JRutledge Mon Jun 01, 2015 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 963143)
Note that none of this is what the OP should require. I agree that what the assigner is doing is sufficient. But let's be clear, all he's doing is apologizing. I have never understood why the promise of future games is considered some sort of peace offering. Would he not have gotten those games otherwise? Are they somehow better than the games he would have gotten otherwise?

The fact is the OP lost money that day.

What should the assigner have done after it was too late to let the OP work? Offer to pay him for one of the games he showed up for? If we show up to a game and the game gets cancelled, the school pays us anyway. If we show up to a game and the assigner cancels (due to too many officials), the assigner should pay.

Well I do not expect the assignor to pay any money if he sent you away. Also future games might be a way you might get something you would not have normally received. But I get your perspective, I just think that all the guy can do at this time is offer him something. If he doesn't follow through, then you know what he really is about. Maybe at the time like many of us we think we are doing the right thing and after looking at the situation with some distance, we make it right. We have all been there. I guess time will tell.

Peace


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