dunking in the warmups
 

September 2016, Ontario will be switching to FIBA with a few modifications ( federation timing, 35 second shot clock :mad: and a few others). One of the other modifications is that dunking in the warmup will continue to be a no-no.

My question is what is the rationale behind this rule? I'm told it is to prevent damage to the rims and backboards. Would not banning hanging on the rims accomplish the same thing?

Grasping For Straws ...
 

If the modification is based on the NFHS rule then, "hanging" is already banned.

NFHS 10-3-3: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent
injury; dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

Billy, he stated that they're using FIBA with modifications.

How Might The Modifications Read ???
 

I'm not familiar with FIBA rules, I don't know what rules he used in the past, and I guessed that they might (note the word "if" in my previous post) use modifications based on NFHS rules, like no dunking a dead ball, or grasping a basket, except to avoid injuries.

I doubted that the modification would simply read: "Dunking in the (pregame) warmup will ... be (illegal)".

I know that rule. The FIBA rule about dunking during the game is very similiar. Thou shall not hang on the rim unless to prevent injury.

My question is what is the rationale behind banning dunking in the warmups?

The rationale is that warmups aren't meant to be an entertainment show. Also takes away the possibility of breaking the rim or backboard before the game even starts.

Disagree if you want, but that is the reasoning.

Impress The Cheerleaders ...
 

Agree. A secondary concern might be to prevent injuries. Kids, who are barely able to dunk, might try to impress the crowd, or the opposing players, and sustain same type of injury.

I wonder if the no dunking during warm-ups rule has anything to do with intimidation? If one team is more athletic, and perhaps taller, they could really do a job on the minds of the other team right before the game is about to start.

I remember when I was in HS (13th century), at our home games the visitors would come out first to warm up, then after a few minutes, our band would start playing the school song really loud, our team would dribble out of the locker room in a line to our side of the court with the first 4 or 5 players dunking the ball. Our fans would go crazy and it really had an intimidating effect on the other guys. I gotta say - it was incredibly exciting.

I figured as much. I don't have a problem with the preservation of the rims and backboards, but I disagree with the rest of the rationale.

I think it is NFHS interjecting themselves when they don't need to. There is nothing wrong with one team intimidating the other.

Many of our top flight tournaments waive the rule.

Perhaps it's just curiousity as to why the rule exists, but if it's anything other than that I ask you this...

Why is dunking in warm-ups being illegal a problem? Dunking is not necessary, whether it's in pre-game or during the game, anyway. If the team needs to dunk to get pumped up, then that's a problem. And if the crowd needs the team to dunk to get pumped up... who cares? The game isn't about them.

The no-dunking rule came in *long* before springed rims and even break-away rims. Part of the logic was protecting the rims. With modern rims, not as much chance- though there are occasional incidents. I suspect the rule remains for two reasons. Some coaches are worried about their smallest teams being intimidated and some coaches are worried about their team thinking more about dunking than getting ready for the game.

I Never Want This To Happen In Any Of My Games ...
 

How many high schools (not college, or professional) in anybody's local area would be able to fix this (below) that night, in time to start, or finish a game?

In almost all cases, I'm sure that there would be a postponement, and that no more basketball would be played there that night.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RLu4Gdi8oc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rumor has it...:eek:

A few years ago here in Central Virginia the refs were "asked" to stay in their locker room in a few schools until two minutes were left in warm-ups so that the players could dunk without consequence. The refs that told me that shared that the noise from the gym was deafening. True home court advantage.

The prohibition of dunking a dead ball was adopted by the NBCoUS&C (now the NFHS and NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committees) back in the late 1960s: The rule originally prohibited the dunking of the ball during the game and pre-game dunking was allowed. The rule changed in the early 1970s so that dunking a live ball was allowed and dunking a dead ball was not allowed. The reason for not allowing the ball to be dunked in both cases was a safety rule.

MTD, Sr.

The schools can "ask" all they want but my partner(s) and I will be on the court at the time required by the rules and proper mechanics.

MTD, Sr.

The Lone Star State ...
 

Our brother, and sister, officials in Texas sound their whistles before entering the visual confines of the court to warn players to stop any pregame dunking that might be occurring.

I wonder if they do this for a middle school girls game?

You didn't mention whether or not the officials actually adhered to the request, but game administration wouldn't be dictating when I enter the court.

Do They Ask For The Scorebook To Be Taken To The Dressing Room ???
 

Good luck to those guys to take care of any scorebook problems before the ten minute mark, and possibly preventing some technical fouls.

Just another case where game management doesn't do its job and the officials are the bad guys.

Why do they need us to enforce this at all? Aren't the coaches and administrators adults?

"Hey, don't dunk."

That said, I'd be thrilled to not come out till 12 minutes or so. In our state, we take the floor at 20 minutes...

1967, in HS, dunking during the game was deemed illegal, understood to be associated with the NCAA making dunking illegal, to avoid Lew Alcindor, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from dominating the college game while he played for UCLA.
Then, as an afterthought, in 1970, dunking was prohibited in warm-ups.
In 1972, a clarified definition of dunking was expressed, which was expanded in 1975.

With interest in our current Rules set, NFHS decided to allow dunking except before the game or during intermission, in 1976.

And if one of the players had been injured the schools/parents would have...sued the officials for not being on the court at the prescribed time.

My old HS interpreter used to tell a story about the pre-game dunking rule. I don't remember any of the details -- dates, schools involved -- but I'll give you the general story.

A game was scheduled for two college teams. But the visiting team's campus had been ravaged by an outbreak of some flu or virus something. The basketball team's players were all sick. So the AD calls the home school and asks to reschedule.

The home school AD realizes that his team can grab an easy win and so says that the game can't be rescheduled. They have to come and play on the original date.

So the visiting team loads up and drives to the game site. They come out on the floor with 5 players for warm-ups. And the first kid in the lay-up line dunks, hangs, and rips the ring off the board.

They turned around and headed back to the locker room and the game was rescheduled.

The next season dunking in pre-game was banned.

I have NO idea if that story is true at all. But I love it and hope it's true.

A Dunk To Remember ...
 

You got most of the rule covered, but don't forget that you also can't dunk a dead ball.

Interesting story, even if it is NCAA, and happened forty-five years ago, and the details are a little cloudy. Springfield (MA) at Southern Connecticut State College (now University). SCSC "wins" at the final buzzer and a SCSC player dunks, after the final horn, in celebration. Officials charge player with a technical foul for dunking a dead ball, Springfield hits the free throw(s), game goes into overtime, and Springfield wins the game.

All one has to do is walk into any multi court facility where phi slamma jamma is allowed and look at all the off kilter and floppy rims to understand why its not a good idea

The best legends SHOULD be true.

I did omit the rule change from 1978, in which the NFHS added a statement prohibiting a player dunking a dead ball.

We are privilged to participate in a game which is continuing to evolve. And of course, the personalities of those who hold the positions of power are evidient in the rules changes, and nuances that are introduced. Sometimes, those chages are accepted, and become part of the fabric of the game. At other times, as evidenced by the NCAA attempt to change the block/charge rule last year, experiments in rules modifications, demonstrate that existing parameters are well suited to the game's structure, and need no further modification.

It wasn't the early 70's that the rule was changed, it was 1976. I remember Marques Johnson of UCLA being the first great college dunker after the rule change.

BNR:

Give me a break, I am 63 and started officiating basketball in 1971; I was writing from memory and without climbing up into the attic to look up the exact year, so please do not fault me for not listing the correct part of that decade.

MTD, Sr.

The only reasonable reason for the rule today is to protect the basket from damage...especially since no level, except for the schools in the Power 5 conferences, are going to have a standby basket ready. I saw this play out at a local AAU tournament 2 weeks ago.

I also laugh at the "intimidation" reasoning. If a team is "intimidated" by the fact that the other team is dunking during pregame...well they've lost the game already. With that reasoning, let's just ban dunking from the game entirely cause the other team might get scared.

I still contend that there is no reason to ban dunking in the warm up. Ban hanging on the rim- absolutely but dunking as a whole is unnecessary.

Well another reason is because players will try this that cannot dunk. There was kid from my area that died trying to dunk but fell on his head (the incident I believe happen in an AAU game in North Carolina). Instead of warming up, they try to dunk and cannot actually dunk, so they might miss and hang on the rim. And unless you have sat around at a high school waiting to replace a rim because a player tried to dunk that couldn't, that is your answer as well.

Peace

Personally, I think the reason the rule remains has nothing to do with injuries or rim damage. Those player who can't dunk are trying to do it every day before practice on those very same rims (and even in the gym before the refs walk in). It is hard to damage a modern spring-loaded snap back rim -- the kids who can't dunk or can barely dunk aren't putting anyhwere near the stress that NBA and college players are when they dunk. So, my expectation is that while there may be some concern about damage or injuries (especally as it pertains to schools with older equipment), the major reason the rule is there is that it's been there and there is no one clamoring to change it.

All it takes is one incident. I've had a game delayed b/c players were dunking before we came out and someone knocked the basket out of off kilter.

I'll be 51 next week, don't have an attic, and didn't start officiating until I was 37 years old. But I remember the rule changing, and when, b/c Bill Walton and David Thompson were not dunking when they were in college. ;)

So we should spend warm-ups scrutinizing if they hung on the rim or not?

To me it's simple, stay off the rim during warm-ups. Players who come close get my standard warning, "don't force me to make a decision."

Let's make it easy . . . you can dunk pregame, but if you miss the dunk, then it's a T!:D

Dunking during in games instead of warm ups would prove to be more intimidating, i guess they just want to reduce the amount of finger injuries during pre-game to avoid delaying the game.