spit take

Of course NBA games are better officiated. Those are professional games with staff referees that have enhanced training, evaluation, and consistent points of emphasis from the league.

As far as the out of bounds play, there was a lot of contact high, so I can see how the foot being out of bounds was missed.

These referees - even those in the NBA - are human. You do realize that, yes?

Yeah, there's no way that two out of bounds calls going the wrong way down the stretch of a 5 point game had any impact on the game.

Are you suggesting that Wisc. should not have even been in the game?

No. :confused:

I'm with ya JRut. I think players at this level should be expected to play through that amount of arms.

The problem with this line of thinking is that you're dismissing the other 37 minutes of the game, as if they don't matter.

It's a pet peeve of mine that people make a bigger deal out of a play just because it happened with a minute left in the game. Scoring, or preventing the other team to score, is just as important in the first minute of the game as the last minute.

Without giving credence to other comments that have been made, a bad call late in the game does have more of an impact than one that occurs early in the game. The theory is that teams have more ability to overcome that mistake with more time. This diminishes as the clock winds down.

Don't interpret my comments to mean that I agree with parrot. I don't; and I don't think the officiating impacted this game.

I agree, but it's never looked at in that way.

If a team gets a couple of bad calls in the first two minutes, they've got 38 more to suck it up. Couple of bad calls down the stretch don't afford the same recovery period.

I'm not going to argue this, as it's taking away from the topic of this thread, and I'm simply not interested in doing so.

Like I said... I agree, but that's not how most people look at it.

Oakafor had 2 fouls against him and sat for several minutes in the 1st half where if those calls were not made, the outcome might have been different. So if we disputed those 2 calls, would that have been a difference?

I still think when people act like an out of bounds call affected an outcome in a game, that is sad. Because without the replay, no one would have noticed how close that call was in the end.

Peace

It's look at that way by all college supervisors, and probably a good number of HS assignors.

As officials we are expected to be at peak concentration in the last 2-5 minutes of a game. The challenge is raising our level of concentration to those heights during the rest of the game.

That was my take on the play as well.

As it happened live, I thought a.) "Where the hell is Winslow going?" (a constant thought), then b.) "It sure looks like Hayes is pushing him pretty consistently with an arm bar."

So when the replay arrived showing him stepping on the end line, I thought, "It's a wash." Non-factor.

I have to agree. Neither of these were quality calls.

NCAA Head of Officials John Adams on how title game refs missed the controversial out-of-bounds call:

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmcolle...medium=twitter

At least I'm consistent. I wrote that Derosa wrongly called a block on that ND defender in our thread on that game. What saved him in the uneducated public eye is that there was significant left to right movement by the ND defender, which would have actually made this a blocking foul had the offensive player gone airborne prior to the contact. That was not the case for the Wisconsin defender. He simply got knocked straight backward.

Full disclosure:

1) Kansas is always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) my first choice to win in my pools because my Mother graduated from Kansas.

2) Duke is always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) my second choice to win in my pools because one if my H.S. teammates started for Duke from 1972-75.

3) Maryland is always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) my third choice to win in my pools because a basketball letterman from my H.S. (everybody who played basketball for our H.S. basketball coach from 1951 to 1971 consider themselves a member of a fraternity of sorts) started for Maryland from 1963-66.

But I thought that this was a tossup game and both teams would be worthy champions.

And it should be remembered that Lucas Oil Stadium has not been good to Wisconsin in championship games. The last time a Wisconsin team played a championship game in Lucas Oil Stadium it didn't score a point. :eek:


That said:

1) I was surprised that the out of bounds call with just under two minutes in the game was not overturned.

2) The uproar over not calling a FF1 against the Duke player in the first half. In my opinion it was a FF1 but as I read the rules replay could not have been used because not foul was called in the first place. And from the TV angle as the play happened it was difficult to see the contact and I don't know if either of the officials would have been able to see it.

3) I was surprised at the number of charges that were called blocks. These were calls that I would have expected H.S. officials with at least two years of experience would have been able to correctly call. I thought that there were about four calls that were called blocks that were charges and there were no excuses for them to be called anything but charges. And everybody knows my position about guarding and screening.

I am taking about no more than six plays out of the hundreds of yes/no decisions that the officials had to make. Therefore, I thought the game was well officiated, just a tad bit too much contact in the paint for my taste but I still think the officials did a good job.

MTD, Sr.

*You pretty much see the same types of "missed calls" (e.g., missing the oob on duke) and "suspect calls" (e.g., calling a block against LGP’d defensive player) made by refs who officiate 8th grade girls games as you do in these primo games. Despite those refs being regarded as “top level”, they are prone to the same lapses in judgment, erroneous calls, and missed calls that inhere with all refs.

It comes out that John Adams made the biggest decision of the game!
 

Great post! Thanks.
Honest answers by John Adams.
He confirms that the game officials did not see the definitive replay which we got watching on TV. That's a failure of the system and DVsports should lose the contract over that.
Huge item revealed by Adams that he saw the definitive replay in time to go to the table and summon the officials back to view that before restarting play, but elected not to get involved. I can see merit in both positions--for the coordinator to get involved or not. Personally, I would have held up play and had the guys come look at every replay available, especially if I knew that there was an important one which they hadn't seen. I would have done so because of the intense scrutiny that these officials receive in the media and from the spectating public. I would feel that it is my duty to protect my guys by giving them every possible opportunity to get a very important play right and avoid some of the criticism. I don't agree with sitting back and doing nothing while knowing that your guys are going to get ripped for something when you can prevent it and eliminate the coming public outcry. When weighing whether to intervene or not, I think that the leader of NCAA officiating should take the side of getting the correct decision for the integrity of the game. He wouldn't be actually making the call, just providing the opportunity for the crew to see/have more/necessary information.

If UW (or its fans or coaches) is going to complain that a missed OOB call or two cost them the game, they should be arguing that a missed shot clock violation and a missed OOB that didn't just change possession but added a total 4 points to UW's score (2 of the points with just over 2 minutes to go in the critical part of the game) cost UK the semi-final game and that UK should have been in the game in their place.

Welcome to the avocation of officiating! The only job where you are expected to be perfect the first time out and get better from there on.

The shocking thing to me was the lack of travel calls. Both sides did it but there were lots. First was Decker, then several duke player, then Kaminski, then Allen I think near the end on one of his key made baskets at the end. I'm not talking nit picking travels either. Of course, I've never missed one from the stands. Verne Harris said travels were his worst call and that's the way he wanted it. It's now NBA'esque in regards to travelling. I need to adapt next season. I've always called less than my partners but thought I was just weak on the call. Turns out I was just ahead of my time. :D

To each his own. If the officials didn't see the right replay, it's not on them at all, but rather it's on whoever set up the replay system. So, people may criticize all they want, but...... Also, I'm a little vague about where he would have/could have taken the officials to see another better replay, but wherever it was, I don't think it would be proper for Adams to personally inject himself into the contest itself in any way while it is going on. jmo

pretty much word for word from the guy on the floor

https://youtu.be/NX8krVUM_7I?t=5m15s

Same in that both plays were late in close games and incorrectly called blocks. Given John Adams apparent love for blocking fouls to encourage scoring and driving into the lane, and the limited knowledge the general public has in regards to LGP I think DeRosa correctly figured in both cases that calling a block would be more palatable.

He was left with a bad choice of getting it right the wrong way or getting it wrong the right way. There is no good choice choice there but I think he would have opened a can of worms on the order of that one US/USSR Olympic game had he intervened with no rules authority to do so .

I agree with this sentiment. Once someone does it that first time, all major TV sports will then have that expectation, and it will trickle down. There is an alternate sitting at the table, he should be the one reviewing all the broadcast angles the announcers are viewing while the on-court crew is reviewing at their monitor.

Where did you come up with notion that the UK/ND call was incorrect? You took a poll of conference supervisors, or just Indiana residents? :cool:

That's was the easiest block of any of the plays I've seen discussed in the forum this season.

Actually I think the fact that this play got called a block just further reinforces the lack of knowledge the public has of LGP and what is a block and what is not. If that is called a charge I don't think anyone outside of Durham NC would have a problem with it.

You are both correct.

MTD, Sr.

That's the statement I was replying to. Full stop.

I'm not sure what arguing how other missed calls impacted a previous game has to do with that. I'm not a UW fan, and I never claimed anything "cost" them the game. Duke was playing better at that point and probably wins anyway - so the original poster may have been a little hyperbolic saying the game came down to officiating - but if those calls go the way they should have gone it definitely affects how the game plays out, if not the final result.

Ff1?
 

Anyone who actually believes that call was anything other than a defender sticking his nose into a shooter needs his/her head examined. That's just crap to think that is anything other than a standard basketball play

I agree with you 100% and I'm a Badgers fan.

You're presuming a whole with that first statement, but I'll let it go.

Is it also a "pet peeve" that they have replay in the last two minutes? What's so important about the last two minutes?

If the very first questionable calls goes the other way, none of the other plays would have happened. The entire game events change. An entirely new sequence of events would have happened.

Where are Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson when you need a space/time continuum to be altered?

Mike Krzyzewski defends Bo Ryan's postgame comments

"It’s easy for me to say this because we won the tournament, but I thought the officiating was as good as we’ve had," Krzyzewski said. "I wish we had this national agency for at least the five power conferences and maybe the Big East where officials will only do games in those conferences so you’ll have better officiating."

Haha, good luck with that. But it would probably open up things for us peons trying to move up, so I wouldn't be opposed to it.

It would? How?

Per: "I wish we had this national agency for at least the five power conferences and maybe the Big East where officials will only do games in those conferences so you’ll have better officiating."

If big dawgs are only working in those 6 conferences (IMO, the A-10, MVC, & Mtn West would also qualify in such a scenario), then who is working in the Horizon, MEAC, Southern, Sun Belt, C-USA, etc?

The head of the NCAA officiating has publicly said that you are incorrect.
==============
NCAA head of officials on controversial play: 'We never saw what everybody saw at home'
The Dagger
Sam Cooper Tue, Apr 7 9:32 PM GMT
By now you’ve probably seen the blown call that went against Wisconsin with just under two minutes left in Monday night’s national championship.

If you missed it, Wisconsin’s Bronson Koenig drove into the lane and attempted a layup in traffic and missed badly. The ball went up in the air and players from both sides fought for the ball, which deflected off a hand and out of bounds. The officials initially ruled that the ball hit off of Koenig, giving the ball back to Duke.

However, a closer, zoomed-in replay showed that the ball clearly glanced off the finger of Duke’s Justise Winslow.


Even after a review of nearly two minutes, possession was awarded to Duke in a head-scratching decision.

To explain how the blown call transpired, NCAA head of officiating John Adams appeared on Sirius XM radio and made a pretty surprising admission that they never saw the definitive replay that viewers saw at home.

“All four of our officials were involved in the review. We never saw, on our monitor, what everybody saw at home, if you can believe that,” Adams said.

However, after the officials left the monitor and made their ruling, Adams said he saw the zoomed-in view of the ball clearly touching Winslow’s finger.

At that point he had the opportunity to quickly make a decision.

“I saw it after they had left the monitor, and actually thought about, is it in my prerogative to get up, run over to the table, buzz the buzzer, and tell them to come back and look?” Adams said. “That’s how critical I thought the play was and concluded that this is a job for the guys on the floor. I’ve never done it before. Why would I do it tonight and perhaps change the balance of the game?”


It’s pretty surprising that Adams wouldn’t blatantly admit that a mistake had been made and even more surprising that he’d admit that he had the opportunity to correct the mistake. To do so, it seems like he would have had to forgo protocol that had been followed with the replay system for the entire season.

Beyond that, Adams seemed to cast a bit of blame toward the review system itself and said that the incident will be looked at moving forward.

“They’d already left. It will be one of the things we will follow up on,” Adams said. “We’ve been told time and time again that nobody at home will see anything you didn’t see. And I will tell you that’s not what happened last night. That’s not an excuse; that’s just laying it out for you.”

While it’s nice that Adams was so transparent in explaining how it all went down, none of it will make Wisconsin fans feel any better.

After the possession was ultimately given to Duke, freshman guard Tyus Jones – the Final Four’s Most Outstanding Player – drilled a three-pointer to increase the Blue Devils’ lead from five to eight.

The Badgers were able to cut the Duke lead down to three, but could not quite get over the hump and Duke prevailed, 68-63, to take home the fifth national title in program history.

(H/T Deadspin)

- - - - - - -

Sam Cooper is a contributor for the Yahoo Sports blogs. Have a tip? Email him or follow him on Twitter!

Me, you, and APG?

I would take a 30 game of mid majors ( MEAC / Ivy & Pat / MAAC / Am. East ).........

This has turned into a massive mess.



Dan Gavitt, the NCAA's vice president of the men's basketball championship, said on ESPN's "Outside the Lines" on Wednesday that officials actually did see the same video replay that viewers at home saw on the questionable out-of-bounds call in the national title game, contradicting what John Adams, the NCAA's supervisor of officials, had said Tuesday.

NCAA VP says officials actually did see replay angle of disputed out-of-bounds call in Duke-Wisconsin title game

The NCAA and Adams don't seem to be parting on the best terms. He wanted to continue in the job and they wanted someone new.

That would not surprise me. Just from hearing different things I know not all veteran officials nor conference supervisors were happy with some of the direction he was taking the Men's side, especially as it applied to play-calling and some floor mechanics.

Could this controversy be manufactured by one side or the other as a result of a bad break-up?

Adams saying the system Gavitt and the NCAA purchased is inferior.

Gavitt saying the Adam's officials didn't complete the job.

Wouldn't that be bad news for DeRosa, if he was in line for Adams' job?