New Youth Sports Law in Florida
 

Bill bans youth coaches who get tossed from game

Seems vague and subjective. Interesting to see if it passes and/or ever gets enforced.

Terrible rule. Officials will be under pressure to keep people that need to go in games and there will be worse behavior in the long run.


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It is great to see that all the trivial problems (infrastructure, education, poverty, economy, etc.) in Florida have been resolved and they can get to the really important issues like youth rec league coaches.

I understand that they can probably handle more than one piece of legislation at a time, but how much money is being spent on this?

---Getting off soap box---

Florida has had quite of few incidents of coaches/players attacking officials. I have no problem with them addressing legislation to clean up that environment.

So what you are saying is that those that run the leagues are not capable or lack to coconuts to ban coaches on their own who create problems and that a law, which will either be next to impossible to enforce or require sports officials (many of whom don't care enough to learn the rules and proper mechanics) file a notice with a governmental entity will fix the problem.

Just curious, assuming a notice is actually sent and a coach is banned...exactly who is going to enforce the ban? The same league that didn't do anything from the beginning? Law enforcement? Many of these coaches coach in multiple leagues...are they banned from all of them?

I worked in a state once where a HS head coach ejection resulted in forfeit.

Nobody ever got ejected. If someone actually did, there'd be this huge rigamarole about "taking the game from the kids" and other crap like that.

Baseball's a different beast -- I've only had 2 coach ejections in 28 years in basketball (none since 1995) and none in football, but it's not unusual to have one in a season of HS baseball. When you allow coaches to work on the field and then come onto the field and argue calls, it leads to situations where the only practical recourse is making them go sit on the bus.

Laws like this tie the hands of the official. Nobody wants to see a coach lose their job over a single ejection.

The law would apply only for 12 and under sports leagues, so job security wouldn't really be an issue. It would only take a couple of officials with nutz to get the message across.

And how many of those officials would effectively be blackballed from working those leagues / games?

When I moved to Wisconsin, I looked for some youth football to work. Found what I thought was a good program. Coaches on the field during play at the younger levels. After 3 weeks of dealing with coaches who would try to get in your face and argue in the middle of the field, the league organizer said they're hiring other people going forward "because the coaches don't like that you won't let them yell at you on the field."

I can't speculate on that. But I would assume that the leagues would not do such unless those administrators like chaos in their leagues.

Just my opinion, but I think that is a bad assumption.

Let's be honest, leagues are a source of revenue for an organization. You really think a business is going to keep using a particular vendor (official) and ignore the outrage of their customer (parents) when an equally...if not more...qualified vendor is available?

I ask because the first time a coach and official are having a particularly bad day at the same time and a coach is tossed and suspended I can see the brown stuff hitting the fan. Parents will be screaming because Little Johnny cannot be coached by their real coach. I mean, come on...everyone can see that he has the skills and ability to be the next King James.

Agreed. It's bad on a number of levels. May be well intentioned but really, really bad execution. Hopefully someone with some degree of intelligence in the FL legislature (HA!) will see the folly of trying to enforce (and the real-life consequences this is going to ceate) and defeat this thing before it ever comes to a vote.

And IMHO...a textbook example of government overreach.

I don't think this is a matter for government. It's not about safety or punishment for violating the health or rights of others, like increased penalties on assaults. This should be under the authority of the leagues, not the state.

Plus, this particular bill is completely toothless and likely meaningless in practical effect. It does indeed ban an ejected coach for the season. However, it also says that each league must set up a procedure of 'due process' to allow an ejection to be appealed, which if successful would result in immediate reinstatement. There is no definition of that due process or any penalties for violation or anything. Waste of time.

So if a league is diligent and serious about sportsmanship, they likely don't need this blunt instrument. And if they're not, they'll just have a kangaroo court to rubber stamp appeals and achieve nothing in reality.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bil...ext/Filed/HTML

You're kidding, right? There are stories all the times of leagues and tournaments who get rid of officials or simply stop using them because the officials TCB and don't bend over backwards to please the "customer." I posted one above. That's not the only time that's happened to me in 28 years, either.

Difference between me and other officials is that I don't really care -- I don't really need to work stuff like this and do it mainly to tune up for camps or for some pocket money to take on vacations. I'll TCB. Those that use this money to pay the bills quickly learn to get walked on so they keep getting the work.

I haven't umpired youth baseball in several years - and haven't done any baseball for a few years now - but I would volunteer to fly myself to Florida and take care of business. Tell me where to sign up.

I agree with this. I also do not work any youth events anymore. I realize not everyone can do that, but even when I did work youth games I only worked for organizations that supported officials. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact we are independent contractors.

Guess it is not an issue around these parts because I've never once considered something like that happening. There a lot of parents who sit in silence but I very happy their jack-wagon coach gets tossed from a game.

What I do know is that I've read quite a few stories of officials getting assaulted in Florida. Maybe this isn't the proper execution to address the lack of civility in sports leagues in that state, but apparently it is bad enough to catch the attention of some people of power.

In all the years I was associated with our local kids rec league, our policy was that if a coach was ejected, he or she had to appear before the executive committee of the Board of Directors before he or she could continue to coach. If they did not agree to appear, they were done coaching (either head or assistant) "forever", even if they had a younger kid who was coming up in the ranks. If they appeared, there was still the possibility they would be barred, but that was rare. Sometimes the Board committee would suspend them for a game or two but they usually straightened themselves out pretty quick. We had to keep in mind that all our coaches were volunteers and we really didn't want to lose them.

There was one coach who slapped a player (5th grade boy) during a timeout for "not paying attention". He thought it was OK to slap him because the kid was his son. We kicked this jerk out for life.

Seems like the wrong fix to me. Who is acceptable as a coach in the league should be league business.

My comment about assault on officials in FL. In NC, it is a felony to assault a game official. Why add a civil penalty (cant coach anymore) when assault is a violent crime and should be treated as such. If the offender is convicted of a felony, then with recreation leagues around here, they are not eligible to coach.

Well, in Florida, a couple of the assaults that have occurred have been by convicted felons who have been allowed to be assistant coaches in youth leagues. Apparently those businesses are not being run in the best interests of the participants and officials.

On the surface I like the rule. I think coaches need to coach and stop trying to act like "children" when things do not go their way. And yes if a league wants to ban an official because they did their job, then I guess they might alienate a lot of their potential staff. Yes, that would be chaos. Then you would get guys who are not good just trying to work their games.

Something needs to be done at these levels. High schools usually have some level of accountability with the participants. Youth are self-run and the inmates are usually running the asylum.

Peace

I swear the heat cooks people's brains down here. The assault cases I've heard of tend to occur in youth football and soccer. There's no shortage lunatic parents in AAU basketball but I've not heard of much in the way of physical confrontation...at least in my neck of the woods. It is a big state though.

The person who sponsored the bill witnessed the bad behavior at his daughter's softball game (he's a coach). He's a state senator from South FL. (Broward County). I applaud the effort...but this measure seems broad, non-specific and unenforceable.

That's a reason why a lot of areas are going to background checks for almost any adult, coach,umpire, score keeper, to be able to do games.

Many areas, like mine, can't afford to have umpires blackballed lest they have to start having lotteries before gamed to see who gets pulled out of the stands to do games...that's almost how I got started doing basketball games.

I am interested in how the AAU (and Disney) are going to respond to this legislation considering the number of AAU Nationals that are held at Disney. Also YBOA basketball and USSSA nationals.

MTD, Sr.

I wouldn't even put this partly on the official. Even officials who are having a bad day manage to not toss coaches unless the coach is acting like a fool. The great thing is, there's always the first T as a warning.

I'd bet a nickle that the senator doesn't have any intention of driving this through the process to law, but is using the bill as a way of getting some attention -- both for himself and for the problem in youth sports. I'll be the bill is sparking a lot of discussions (like this one), and that some leagues may use it is as inspiration to remind coaches (and parents) of appropriate behavior. And I'd hope some would use it to remind refs to toss the miscreants who don't get the message and clean up the league.

(Our local AYSO Area had a lead administrator who would come to the referee meetings for the Area programs (most notably the older players) and plead with referees to toss the bad actors as that is how they got to the attention of an the administrator in a way she could act. After a few years of action, the environment is really quite good. Alas, not all leagues have that kind of support.)

I worked a train wreck youth "church" league last year (against my better judgment) in which we were told not to give coaches technical fouls. We were told to go to the director if we had a problem with a coach (which we did many times throughout the season). The league director would never take care of business, and the problems never improved. I lost my temper with him one time and told him loudly, "Deal with that coach before I do!" Thankfully, he has been relieved of his duties by the church, and I no longer provide them my services, but apparently the new director has straightened things out (and instructs referees to call technicals).

Nothing they said after this would matter. I don't call a lot of them, but I'm not going to work a game where I know any I did call wouldn't be supported.

Big. Red. Flag.

Run away...don't walk.

The Toledo CYO basketball uses NFHS Basketball Rules with two modifications: 1) No dunking allowed. PERIOD!! It is a TF. 2) All TFs for dunking or unsportsmanlike behavior, including players and bench personnell is considered a FTF and automatice ejection.

MTD, Sr.

Yep.

Tempted to respond:
"Should I also consult with you before I call traveling?"

"If you want to deal with the coaches during the game, you'll need to put on a whistle."

"I'll assume then that you'll be sitting next to them to prevent them from crossing the line."

Actual response:
"No thank you. Have a good day, and good luck with your league."

Unfortunately, the nice guy in me said "it's all about the kids" and "I'd hate for this league to not have enough officials." The assignor also begged. I gave the league the benefit of the doubt (again, against my better judgment) that everyone would be respectful of the church atmosphere and any issues would be corrected swiftly. Alas, that did not go according to plan. I should've known better after this many years. Thankfully, for the league's sake, the church stepped in after the season and relieved the director of his duties. Not that it matters to me anymore, but at least something was done about it, if for no one other than the kids' sake.

I avoid most wreck and church leagues altogether.

I'm always intrigued by no-dunking rules -- and wonder if they are inspired by old equipment in many gyms (very possible for CYO -- older schools may not have spring wound rims) or to avoid intimidation (which I think is bogus, but, hey, it's their rules).

The line, "It is all about the kids" gets us in trouble a lot. If you do not like what you are leaving your house to do, you should not go. JMO.

Peace

I believe in the value of youth and interscholastic sports, but you will never, ever hear me use those words.

Agreed. I have never done it "for the kids." I do it, frankly, because I like to do it. It doesn't really get any more complicated than that.