Louisville/NC State travel on 3pt play (Video)
 

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned this yet.
With 3:05 remaining in the Louisville/NC State game there is a discussion worthy play.

The dribbler picks up his dribble just inside the 3pt line with his left foot on the floor. He jumps off that foot and lands on his right foot inside the FT lane. At this time there appears to be arm to arm contact with the defender. Perhaps this is a foul, perhaps not. His left foot then returns to the floor and there is significant contact with the defender. The new Lead in transition begins to call a foul as the offensive player elevates and scores. He counts the baskets and awards one FT.

I have either a travel before the foul or the beginning of the act of shooting, a foul followed by a travel, which cancels the goal, and two FTs. In the game, this offensive player gained a huge illegal advantage by his footwork.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLzT3Ouvr2s

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aLzT3Ouvr2s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Since this move is rarely called a travel in absence of contact why would you expect it to called a travel when contact is added?

Eh, I'm fine with putting the gather in the air on this one.

you are being extremely generous.

It's judgment, though. What's a gather to one isn't quite a gather to another. Benefit of the doubt goes to the player with the ball, IMO.

I like the game being called like this. Always have. Not bothered that reality doesn't meet the letter of the written rule, either.

I'm sure I had an offensive player in the lane for more than 3 seconds more than 4 times this season, but I'm not bothered that I "missed" those violations, either.

I would have the gather in the air as well

Most plays like this I have a gather in the air.

Peace

Give him continuous motion.

I don't see a gather on that move no matter how many times I see it. Clearly offensive player got an advantage on an illegal move to the basket.

While I too might very well have it in the air in real time, that doesn't change the fact that the video shows that he really had it held in two hands before he jumped. We can dance around it all day but the video doesn't lie.

I had a travel live and still do, but my opinion would probably be different if I'm that L, on the run, and from that angle.

I have a travel due to the dribble ending while the left foot is still on the floor. I will admit that it's close, though. I'd love to see it called a travel.

I can see a travel call; or a foul call in the act of shooting (as was called by the officials), but I can't see calling both on this play.

I think the travel, if it happened, occured before the contact on the arm and the contact on the arm would be ignored.

I believe that the C has to get this travel.

Gather is in the air.

But he's holding the ball while still on the floor....which is what the travel rules are based on.

It is fine if we want to change the travel rules to some yet to be defined new status of the ball or even admit we're already calling it by a standard not in the rules but lets not pretend this isn't traveling by the rules because it is.

Touching both hands doesn't immediately equate to "holding." At least not how I see it, anyway.

When it is between two hands and doesn't come out, that is holding the ball. Not sure what else it could be. Doesn't seem like the position of the ball has any relevance, by rule, as it seems some are trying to imply.

Also, does that player have player control? if there were an offensive foul by that player at that moment, would it be a player control foul? If someone requested a timeout at that moment, would you grant the timeout?

What does PC have to do with this? A player dribbling a basketball has PC without holding the ball. Are we pretending now that the process of gathering a dribble negates PC?

Even though, it's technically a travel, it's (almost) never called. I see the problem not being that this wasn't called a travel, but the rare times when it is. Because the kid has probably done the move 100 times before and never been called, but now it's a travel?

You can see the issue from the discussion on here. Some refs would call it, most refs wouldn't. It really shouldn't come down to who's reffing your game that night.

I'd be fine with calling the travel every time, or letting it go every time.

Exactly the opposite. The point is that there are only two ways to have PC....by dribbling or holding. There is no third option. Unless you are willing to state that the player loses player control for some span of time during the transition from dribbling to holding, the end of the dribble (which occurs when the player has the ball come to rest in one or both hands) is, by definition, the beginning of the hold. When the ball comes to rest in even one hand the dribble has ended, the hold has begun, and the travel rules come into effect. If you would not let the player turn the ball back over for another dribble, you have deemed they are holding the ball by the definitions in the book relating to how the dribble ends. There is no requirement that the "hold" be with two hands securely in front of the player. Once the ball is in the player's hand and it isn't going back down, he's holding it.

I don't mind if we're not calling it that way. Lets just be honest that we're calling it different than the book defines it to be and stop pretending that a player holding the ball isn't holding the ball.