Should the travel rule be overhauled/rewritten?
 

Basically, do those in charge want to allow "two steps" on drives to the hoop?

Because if they don't, we as officials (at every level) need to reevaluate how we call the game. Spin moves on the gather, drives to the basket, "Euro-steps", etc....are travels almost every time, and they're called approximately never. And when they are called, even when accurate, are met with disdain from players, coaches, announcers, etc...because traveling is so rarely enforced as written.

I have no problem if the rule is changed to match the NBA wording, and including the phrase "two steps" on drives to the basket (or something of that nature), because it looks good/natural, doesn't effect play and is essentially being called this way anyway.

Are you guys OK with simply continuing to ignore the rule and just adapting how the game is called?

As someone who isn't a basketball official, I think the way officials are instructed to call it should be reflected in the rule itself.

I'm OK with it the way things are. They don't nitpick it. Nobody involved IN the game seems to expect otherwise.

I was at the B1G tourney and it was funny watching entire fanbases given traveling signals from the crowd...while coaches didn't say anything.


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Years ago, I was working a kids rec tourney and one of the players was the son of NBA player Kenny Carr. Kenny was in the bleachers watching the game. When the point guard from the other team would bring up the ball, Kenny would chant "TRAVEL, TRAVEL" over and over. After this happened a few times, I went over to him and said, "Kenny - you play in the NBA. How would you know what a travel is?" He laughed and didn't bring it up again.

The euro-step is not a travel if done properly.

I don't want the rule to change simply because I don't want to have to acknowledge that fans are correct when they yell "HE GETS TWO STEPS!" :rolleyes:

Yep, and it's done correctly far more often than the spin move is.

I'm aware. And it's harder to see the difference than it is on spin moves, which is a travel more than 90% off the time imo.

I think that number is exaggerated a bit.

I also see officials see a spin move and just call it a travel, which is worse than letting a few go that actually are, but hard to see. If you don't pick up the pivot foot, you can't call a travel.

Ehhhh, I think it's pretty accurate. It's rare that I see a player wait until they have their "in motion" foot on the ground before gathering the ball.

I've been testing myself over the past several months, but calling them live and then rewinding the DVR to get a second look, and 9/10 I'm calling them accurately.

It's fairly unique, even unnatural, NOT to gather too early on a spin move.

That said, many are close enough that I'd pass in a game. But those that aren't close are still almost never called.

Are all of these travels?
 

Our supervisors around here tell us that if we need to watch them in slow motion several times over then don't call it. We aren't in the business of splitting hairs

If I need to watch it in frame-by-frame to see it, I agree. If I can see it live and confirm it with slow motion, that's different.

I hate when an official cas the travel and people on here say I can only see it in slow motion so it wasn't a good call.

totally agree. If I see a player make a good spin move I'm not going to call it unless I see that extra step or pivot coming down. Euro step has to be watched because players can do that James Harden type when the pivot comes down. I missed one like that.
I've said this before but I've seen refs call too many travels on quick plays, by that I mean when the player catches the ball and makes a move right after. Either a drive to the basket, or a fake then go. Sometimes the ball isn't released but other times the refs seem like they weren't ready for that fast of a move and they call a travel when it's not.

We need to stop this "ignoring the rule" narrative. Travels are hard to get based on all levels. I see all level of officials miss travels. And when I called a couple in the State Finals, people complained as if they were missed, but the video backed me up. And most of all who cares what fans think. Anything funny to them is a travel even when it is not rules based. Why are we concerned with what fans think about any rule that they do not have to administer?

Peace

totally agree. If I see a player make a good spin move I'm not going to call it unless I see that extra step or pivot coming down. Euro step has to be watched because players can do that James Harden type when the pivot comes down. I missed one like that.
I've said this before but I've seen refs call too many travels on quick plays, by that I mean when the player catches the ball and makes a move right after. Either a drive to the basket, or a fake then go. Sometimes the ball isn't released but other times the refs seem like they weren't ready for that fast of a move and they call a travel when it's not.

Exactly. No need to declare it to be a bad call just because someone else's judgement is more finely tuned.

Agreed. If it happened, it happened. If the official in questions sees slow motion better than you, maybe he's better than you.

That said, I think we tend to allow "two steps" on driving layups, in spite of the rule. In other words, we basically rule the dribble ended after the first step, even if it actaully ended before. I'm not sure whether it's a benefit-of-the-doubt thing or just being consistent.

For me, it's benefit of the doubt. I'm conditioned to see the layup as legal, so unless it's blatant, I don't call anything because I don't see it.

On spin moves, it's not really about watching the pivot come down. It's about seeing where the feet are when the gather takes place. The finish of the spin will look the same almost every time.

Watch a few games with the DVR remote in your hand. Take a second look at EVERY spin move, from guards or big men, when the ball is picked up/gathered mid-spin. I'll bet you'll be surprised at how few of them are legal.

I think it's a point that needs to be widely taught, because I don't believe most officials consider them to be even near travels. They simply see it as a legal move and don't give it a second thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcq_20O07b8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Tcq_20O07b8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This movie is RARELY called correctly. At any level.

This is part of why I'm frustrated. Maybe I'm unique in that I'm able to see this particular aspect of the game better than most.

But when I make these calls in games, I get a lot of grief from coaches, mostly because so few officials call it this way.

I think the game may even be better served by ruling these kind of moves as legal, in the rulebook.

I'll say this, and it may seem to be a contradiction of what I wrote earlier.

If you find you're literally the only official in your area making the call, you might want to consider adjusting your filters.

I'm inclined to agree, unfortunately.

I see posts like this, from relatively important sources, and get even more frustrated because they go nearly ignored at every level.

GET THE SPIN TRAVEL | Dave Hall Officiating

I can say that my area wants us getting the spin travel. It's funny when I get it in a freshman game and some yahoo from the stands starts telling me that's a middle school call. All I can think is, "it it was, your kid would have stopped doing it last year."

As I move up in my area, I hope to influence others to call it as well. I honestly think it's simply a matter of pointing out what the player's feet are doing during the move.

If one takes the time to read the Traveling Rule for NFHS, NCAA Men's and Women's, FIBA, and NBA/WNBA and wade through the language of each rules set, one will see that the traveling rule is the same in each rule set. That said, there is really nothing wrong with the Traveling Rule as written in any of the rules set. I will say that the NFHS/NCAA language is clearer and easier to read than the FIBA and NBA/WNBA rules sets. The "progressing" wording is mind numbing.

MTD, Sr.

This is a huge issue with me for a bunch of reasons but I'll be brief and stay to the OP.

Point 1: I don't think that the biggest culprits for travels that get missed are on finish moves I think the biggest culprit is on travels. No way ball is out of contact with the hand before pivot foot is lifted on a huge number takeoffs.

Point 2: I think a lot of travels get missed because of the physicality of the game and needing to officiate the defense. Difficult to watch the feet, hand and ball of the offense simultaneously if watching the feet of the defense and checking for arm contacts.

Point 3: Not just on this forum but in general becoming increasing frustrated by the idea if I have to see it on tape I'm not calling it. I get that if you miss one once in a while and need super slow mo and motion dectors to get a call then you have to let that go in real time. But if you can watch something on tape and slow mo or not see that you are missing the same or a similar call consistently the official involed IME needs to change their threshold for what they are seing or learn to look at something else on that play to get a call right. Saying its too close if its happening all the time means its not really that close . ..

Sometimes you can be the best official that's not working. As was said earlier, if you're the only one calling this stuff, adjust your filter.

This is not true in all aspects with regard the travel rule in the NBA/WNBA versus NFHS and NCAA.

For instance, the spin move referenced in the thread earlier...completely legal under the pro rule sets.

Yes, change it to the NBA rule. Or create a clause that says "if the move is really cool, let it go".

I am good with that. At least it will put an end to the charade of so many trying to say a player with the ball in two hands isn't really holding the ball yet.

I thought that *was* the NBA rule.:p