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-   -   LeBron and Harden (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99424-lebron-harden-video.html)

BDevil15 Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:32pm

LeBron and Harden (Video)
 
Im not sure if this is the right forum for this but the Wrestling forum was no help. One minute left in OT, that no call. I don't know how to find the video sorry. If the NBA started releasing those reports already I would be curious to see the explanation.

If you didn't see it H13 crossed V23, V23 reached in and possibly fouled H13, H13 hooked V23 and dragged him about 8 feet, V23 grabbed H13 after dribble was terminated and caused him to travel, both players looked at the nearest official and asked for a call that wasn't going to be made so resumed fouling each other followed by one final foul by V23 on the desperation heave but was released after the Shot clock violation.

The play begins at 2:48 of this clip.

http://www.nbahooptroop.com/videos/cavaliers-vs-rockets

APG Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:41pm

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YWdOuBH28x0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bad Zebra Mon Mar 02, 2015 03:01pm

Plays like that and the ensuing "no call" are one of the many reasons I don't watch the NBA anymore...all the while BOTH players are looking at the official begging for a call. Yuck.

Rich Mon Mar 02, 2015 03:36pm

Hold on LeBron. I'm not sure why this is that hard, really.

ballgame99 Mon Mar 02, 2015 03:41pm

I was watching this live and couldn't believe no call was made on blue 23. It seems like a very clear foul.

APG Mon Mar 02, 2015 03:45pm

Offensive foul on Harden if a foul is to be had. Harden hooks the defender's arm and tries to fool the official into thinking his arm was hooked.

Harden is especially adept at performing this maneuver and probably something the trail has seen on tape before.

ballgame99 Mon Mar 02, 2015 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 956696)
Offensive foul on Harden if a foul is to be had. Harden hooks the defender's arm and tries to fool the official into thinking his arm was hooked.

Harden is especially adept at performing this maneuver and probably something something he's seen on tape before.

He may have clamped down on the arm, but the fact that the defender's arm is there on an active ball handler is foul isn't it?

Rich Mon Mar 02, 2015 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 956696)
Offensive foul on Harden if a foul is to be had. Harden hooks the defender's arm and tries to fool the official into thinking his arm was hooked.

Harden is especially adept at performing this maneuver and probably something something he's seen on tape before.

LeBron's arm didn't get there on its own. Stick a hand in the cookie jar, and...

APG Mon Mar 02, 2015 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballgame99 (Post 956698)
He may have clamped down on the arm, but the fact that the defender's arm is there on an active ball handler is foul isn't it?

Sure the arm may have been out there, but that doesn't give the opponent carte blanche to clamp that arm. If they showed a baseline camera, I wouldn't be surprised if the clamp occurred before there was contact by the defender. And if there was contact by the defender, it was marginal at best.

The tell tell sign that me that the offensive player is attempting to clamp in order to draw a foul is after the two initially separated...and he searches out the defender again clamps his arm and pull him in again in an attempt to draw a foul again.

I actually would have liked a travel call on the play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 956701)
LeBron's arm didn't get there on its own. Stick a hand in the cookie jar, and...

I'll have to look for exactly where I read/heard this, but one of the things mentioned as a "fool the referee" action at this level is when a player pretends to be held when he is the actual one doing the holding.

Was the defender's arm out there? Sure...and if offensive player does a rip through move, then the defender is probably going to foul. But it would be a foul on the defender because the offensive player did a legal move. Clamping an arm is not a legal move.

zm1283 Mon Mar 02, 2015 04:59pm

I like the travel idea also. I don't have a foul on Lebron here either way.

APG Mon Mar 02, 2015 05:20pm

League agrees...should have been an offensive foul first...then a defensive foul to cause a travel absent a call for the contact by the offensive player.

Comment: As Harden (HOU) starts his drive to the basket, he clamps the arm of James (CLE) and an offensive foul should have been called.


http://official.nba.com/wp-content/u...3/L2M-Mar1.pdf

Rich Mon Mar 02, 2015 06:17pm

Eh, not the first time I've been wrong. Won't be the last, either.

HokiePaul Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:04pm

Announcers nailed it!
 
For once, I agree with the announcers. That's got to be something ...

Offensive foul, double foul, or travel ... but no call there looks ridiculous and creates the impression that the official is afraid to make a call with the clock winding down.


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