Use your mulligan?
 

Boys varsity game last night--insert the didn't care who won disclaimer--tied after regulation. Jump ball to start overtime is tossed really poorly, way off center toward H jumper. I'm not certain V could have gotten a hand on it had he been in the circle by himself. U's really had no reason to blow it dead, as they had no angle, and no one violated. So it was a play on.

My question is, if you're the R, and you know it's a lousy toss to start ot--do you kill the play (and possession) with a late whistle (as it's not in your mouth on the toss) and reset clock and re-jump? Or play on?

There was no question how bad the toss was. V coach certainly addressed it immediately, and he and R discussed it (civilly) between the first and second ot. Toss to start second ot was bad also, but not as egregious. To start ot 3, R opted to sub out and let U1 do the honors. Good move.

Are you trying to kill me?

I'm confused... why did the U1 (the one responsible for watching the tossed ball) not have a good enough angle on a jump ball?

If I had definite knowledge that the toss was bad, and my partners did nothing, then I'd blow it back.

He may have been a little deep cheating toward the endline, but I'd have to see it again to say for certain.

It's not a bad vantage point to see a stolen tip--but not the greatest for blowing back a lopsided toss.

I have certainly blow back my own bad toss. I would do it again in a heart beat.

I agree with going to the bullpen to bring in the lefty!

A few years ago I worked on a toss where I just popped the ball up starting at my eye level. I simply could not perfect it. So I shifted to a hesitation toss where I dribble between the jumpers 1-3 times and then lift the toss starting at waist level. It's a lot more consistent, but probably not as safe from an injury prevention standpoint.

I digress. Despite my more consistent toss, I was working some youth games last weekend where I could not throw the ball within +/- 10° of vertical to save my life. It was all over the place. So my sympathies to the R in the OP; there are days like those.

I threw a bad one up last week. Neither partner blew it back. I should've, probably, but didn't.

I told the offended coach he'd get the next 2 out of 3.

(No, I didn't do this. We did have a laugh over it, though.)

First one I would've liked back in a few years. It happens.

I do not have the ability to call back my own toss if it is bad, I remove my whistle from my mouth before I toss the ball.

And it would take such effort to put whistle back in mouth and blow. :)

So does (hopefully) every official. ;)

It does, and by the time I done so, we are not stopping the game and starting over. Either one of my partners are going to call the toss back, or we are playing on.

Every season I see more of my partners than I would expect not do so.

It's Called The BillyMac Is Getting Older Mechanic ...
 

Not me. It's the best part of being the referee tosser. I let the umpire make all the calls for the rest of the first period. I also let the umpire (two person Connecticut) run from lead to lead while I stand back at the trail for the entire game. Switches? We ain't got no switches. We don't need no switches. I don't have to show you any stinkin' switches (with apologies to Gold Hat).

I get this -- it's the main reason why I didn't blow mine back.

I could've, but it was good enough for U1/U2 and the ball was already in the front court in the possession of a team, and it's just not that big of a deal.

Solves A Lot Of Problems ...
 

Just flip a damn coin, or give the ball to the visitors.

(I can't wait until Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wakes up from his pre-lunch nap, and reads this.)

I've seen rookies do it, and always bring it up to them later.

Never seen anyone beyond his rookie year forget. Kinda like the back pedal.

Stuff Happens ...
 

Not necessarily after a jump ball, but I'd be lying to everybody if I said that I've never once forgotten to put a whistle in my mouth over the past thirty-four years.

Read the posts again, Billy.

Test question for you:
We're talking about officials who a) forget to put the whistle back in their mouth. or b) officials who don't take the whistle out of their mouth prior to administering a jump ball.

I've seen the tossing official blow back a toss...or even get an obvious violation on a jump ball...several seconds after the fact.

I would say if it's egregious enough...I'm talking real egregious, then I get it. But 98/100 times, live with what the U1 and/or U2 have ruled.

Like Arnold Horshack ...
 

Bingo.

I occasionally get ready to start the second half without realizing my whistle is still in my pocket.

Whistle stays
 

I step in, toss it high, and take a half step backwards - all with a whistle in my mouth. I have never been bumped, hit, pushed or otherwise assaulted during this process in many years of reffing. The key is to keep room between the players, delay a bit after stepping in, toss it high from shoulder heighth, and pull back a little bit out of the way so they don't come down on top of you. It might not be how others would do it but this works for me!

You might the first person I've heard (save for rookies) advocate keeping the whistle while tossing the ball...

I like my teeth intact...all it takes is a flailing arm to get ya...step back or not. Plus, you're still in the pocket when you're actually tossing the ball...which means a player can still get you on the way up.

It works well for you until you get the bill for getting your teeth fixed.

The Officials Manual also explicitly says to remove the whistle before tossing.

You are literally the only person I've ever seen advocate for this. There is absolutely zero upside to keeping your whistle in here, and the downside is huge. If you're teaching new officials this, you're doing them a major disservice.

Not advoating it, just saying I have been doing it this way for a while. I do hear what you guys are saying and maybe I'll break that habit before I have a reason to bteak it.

Yuck. Would it change the game? Not really. But it is, in my view, a nice traditional piece. (Of course, I think we should abolish the playground rule otherwise known as the AParrow . . . .) At the start of the game, I agree it really doesn't matter. In OT -- especially at younger levels with shorter OTs -- that tip can matter an awful lot and I'd really hate to see that go to a coin flip.

(And perhaps I'm also biased at the moment because my son is an effective jumper on jump balls, and an effective jump ball play has led to layups in about half their games.)

So 80% of the time the ball goes to the team with the tallest center. Idiotic way to start a game.

I wouldn't mind going to a coin flip, if only to give some meaning to otherwise near-useless captain's meeting. And to FINALLY have a reason for all my partners who still insist on asking who the 'speaking captain' is.

Heads I Win, Tails You Lose ...
 

Good point. We can't have all three tri-captains stating heads, or tails, at the same time.

Doesn't help. We have the coin toss in soccer and when you ask for who's calling it all you get are blank stares.

Near-useless captains meeting?? When else are you going to tell them to play the black lines all around, keep the hands off, listen cuz we are trying to talk you out of stuff, etc.???

Going back to the OP.

The Game Clock starts when the Toss is touched by either jumper, and we do not reset the game clock if the ball is tossed and we then blow the ball dead for the bad toss.

I had a mulligan in the 1983-84 season (I remember because the "better half" and I only lived in LA from 1982 to 1984.) and we jumped all held balls (we only had two-person crews back then). I was going to toss the ball for a jump ball at Team A's free throw circle when I did not make a very good toss and I knew it. B1 tapped the ball toward her team's basket and because of my poor toss Team B was going to have a easy layup. I had trouble grabbing my whistle to blow the play dead and re-toss the ball and without thinking I yelled: "WAIT A MINUTE!!" My partner sensed I wanted to bring the ball back and whistled the ball dead. We all laughed: partner, players, and coaches. I re-tossed the ball and Team B got the ball off of the tip.

MTD, Sr.

Legal Touch ...
 

Not quite. Almost only counts in horseshoes, and hand grenades.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

If you're retossing for a bad toss, then you would be correct to not reset the game clock if the ball was legally touched.

If you call a violation because the ball was legally touched, and subsequently illegally caught by one of the jumpers, then you would be correct to not reset the game clock because the ball was legally touched.

However, if you call a violation because the ball was touched by a jumper on the way up, that's an illegal touch, and the game clock should be reset to 8:00 if the timekeeper had erroneously started the game clock.

Just flip a damn coin, or give the ball to the visitors. It'll save a lot of aggravation.