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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 11:39am
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2015-16 NFHS Proposed Basketball Rule Changes ...

The items (below) are on the Agenda of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee, that will meet at the Hyatt Regency, Indianapolis, Indiana, on April 20-22, 2015:

Widening the lane to 16 feet/opening up the post play.

Adding the defensive arc to the floor

Officials should refrain from wearing jewelry, fitness bands, or other items that are not necessary for performing their duties. Could add a statement that “a wedding ring is not considered jewelry.” (similar to language re medical alert bracelets).

Permitting a player to have 6 personal fouls before disqualification

Adding a sock color restriction/regulation to the uniform rule code

The sleeves/tight shall be black or white.

Headbands and wristbands shall be white or black.

Delete: A visible manufacturer’s logo/trademark/reference is not permitted on the undershirt.

Add to Basket Interference definition: Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder … Inadvertently or unintentionally slaps the backboard in a legitimate attempt to block a shot. Note: slap by a player that is deemed to be intentional would still be a Technical Foul as in Rule 10-3-4.

Changing the closely guarded to 3 feet instead of 6 feet.

Add to Goaltending definition the requirement of the ball having to be outside of the imaginary cylinder

A post player is any offensive or defensive player in the lane area with or without the ball with his/her back to the basket.

Providing a definition for a secondary defender

Eliminate scoring on any charge call.

Playing the game in halves

When a time-out is called while the ball is in the backcourt; move the ball to the half court line to restart the game.

The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, the opposing coach shall select one of the four remaining players in the game at the time of the injury to attempt the injured player’s free throw(s). However, the injured player’s coach shall select any team member to substitute for the injured player. In addition, if the committed foul is an intentional foul or flagrant foul, the offended coach may select any team member/player to attempt the free throw(s). He/she may also select his/her substitute to enter the game. Consequently, if the injury involves blood, the offended coach shall select any substitute from his/her bench to enter the game to attempt the free throw(s).

Not receiving a new 10 sec. after a time-out called from the backcourt or a deflection

By state association adoption, allow the use of shot clock. Shot clock allotted time duration to be determined by state association. The team in control shall attempt a try for goal within allotted time after gaining team control. The try shall leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the allotted shot-clock period, and subsequently strike the basket ring or enter the basket before or after the allotted shot-clock period.

Play with a shot clock

Both would now be violations: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason; nor shall a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Technical foul: The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate while wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4). or illegal apparel.

Technical foul: If there are multiple offenders due to celebration of a successful try, the penalty is one team technical foul and one indirect technical foul to the head coach.

Adding specific information to the rules book for cleaning up post play.
a) It is legal for offensive and defensive players to touch when both are maintaining a legally established position.
b) Illegal contact on post player. It is a foul when:
- an arm-bar is extended and displaces an opponent.
- displacement occurs from a locked and/or extended elbow.
- a leg or knee is used in the rear of an opponent to hold or displace.
- an offensive post player “backs-down” and displaces the defender once that defender has established a legal guarding position.
- the offensive post player holds, hooks or displaces the leg or body of the defender.
- an opponent is displaced from a legally established or obtained position.

Remove current signal #28 which is the same as #7. Replace with a new signal to be used after a made basket and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be: Arm extended from chest, elbow bent at 90 degree angle, move hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the endline.


I can't wait to see what they select as new rules for 2015-16. The announcement will be as exciting as Christmas morning. I'm sure that, due to the excitement, I won't be able to sleep for the next month.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:26pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 11:47am
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They Finally Took My Suggestions Seriously ...



"If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again" (W. E. Hickson, British educational writer)

BillyMac's Suggested NFHS Rule Changes:

1) Background:

NFHS 9-3-3: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.
PENALTY: (Section 3) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (See 6-7-9 Exception d)

NFHS 10-3-2: A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.
PENALTY: (Section 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.

Change 10-3-2 from a technical foul to a violation. Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds should carry the same penalty as leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

NFHS 9-3-3-B: A player shall not purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.
PENALTY: (Section 3) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (See 6-7-9 Exception d)

2) Background:

If you have a situation where a player touches the ball during a field-goal try, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, while the ball is in the cylinder, and the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, then, by strict interpretation of the written definition, the official can call either a goaltending violation, or a basket interference violation.

The definition of goaltending did contain the requirement of the ball having to be outside of the imaginary cylinder through the 2003-04 season. For some unknown reason the rule was edited, without comment, or announcement, for the 2004-05 season and that part of the definition was dropped.

2002-03 NFHS 4-22: Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while: a) the ball is in downward flight. b) the entire ball is above the level of the basket ring. c) the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight. d) the ball is not touching an imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.

2012-13 NFHS 4-22: Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while it is in its downward flight entirely above the basket ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket in flight.

This omission (outside the cylinder) needs to be corrected.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 11:53am.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 11:52am
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Widening the lane to 16 feet/opening up the post play.
Don't care

Adding the defensive arc to the floor

Hate it

Officials should refrain from wearing jewelry, fitness bands, or other items that are not necessary for performing their duties.

Stupid, but the inevitable result of officials wearing fitness bands. Probably won't apply to wedding bands in most areas, but still.

Permitting a player to have 6 personal fouls before disqualification

Hate it.

Adding a sock color restriction/regulation to the uniform rule code

Hate it.

The sleeves/tight shall be black or white.

Headbands and wristbands shall be white or black.


Not sure whether I care.

Delete: A visible manufacturer’s logo/trademark/reference is not permitted on the undershirt.
I'm sure I don't care.

Add to Basket Interference definition: Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder … Inadvertently or unintentionally slaps the backboard in a legitimate attempt to block a shot. Note: slap by a player that is deemed to be intentional would still be a Technical Foul as in Rule 10-3-4.

No need.

Changing the closely guarded to 3 feet instead of 6 feet.

Hate it. Given how much they want to clean up the rough play, this would be a bad idea.

Add to Goaltending definition the requirement of the ball having to be outside of the imaginary cylinder


Why?

A post player is any offensive or defensive player in the lane area with or without the ball with his/her back to the basket.

Providing a definition for a secondary defender


Hate it (see my comment on the arc)

Eliminate scoring on any charge call.

I don't think anyone knows what this means in this context. How are they defining "charge" so that this isn't already the case?

Playing the game in halves

No

When a time-out is called while the ball is in the backcourt; move the ball to the half court line to restart the game.

Hell no.

The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, the opposing coach shall select one of the four remaining players in the game at the time of the injury to attempt the injured player’s free throw(s). However, the injured player’s coach shall select any team member to substitute for the injured player. In addition, if the committed foul is an intentional foul or flagrant foul, the offended coach may select any team member/player to attempt the free throw(s). He/she may also select his/her substitute to enter the game. Consequently, if the injury involves blood, the offended coach shall select any substitute from his/her bench to enter the game to attempt the free throw(s).

Hell no.

Not receiving a new 10 sec. after a time-out called from the backcourt or a deflection

Hell no.

By state association adoption, allow the use of shot clock. Shot clock allotted time duration to be determined by state association. The team in control shall attempt a try for goal within allotted time after gaining team control. The try shall leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the allotted shot-clock period, and subsequently strike the basket ring or enter the basket before or after the allotted shot-clock period. Play with a shot clock

Don't really care. Solution in search of a problem.

Both would now be violations: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason; nor shall a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

This one I like.

Technical foul: The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate while wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4). or illegal apparel.

Not needed, and if they think increasing the severity of the punishment will increase enforcement, they're crazy.

Technical foul: If there are multiple offenders due to celebration of a successful try, the penalty is one team technical foul and one indirect technical foul to the head coach.

Not sure.

Adding specific information to the rules book for cleaning up post play.
a) It is legal for offensive and defensive players to touch when both are maintaining a legally established position.
b) Illegal contact on post player. It is a foul when:
- an arm-bar is extended and displaces an opponent.
- displacement occurs from a locked and/or extended elbow.
- a leg or knee is used in the rear of an opponent to hold or displace.
- an offensive post player “backs-down” and displaces the defender once that defender has established a legal guarding position.
- the offensive post player holds, hooks or displaces the leg or body of the defender.
- an opponent is displaced from a legally established or obtained position.


Not sure, I don't like all of it. I don't see a need for this, though.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 11:53am
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Aside from the definition and rules cleaning up post play, I'm not seeing any worthwhile changes here.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 11:56am
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Addendum ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Officials should refrain from wearing jewelry, fitness bands, or other items that are not necessary for performing their duties.

Stupid, but the inevitable result of officials wearing fitness bands. Probably won't apply to wedding bands in most areas, but still.
I did a lot of copying, and pasting, and consequently, forgot to include this (below), that was part of the suggested change. Sorry.

Could add a statement that “a wedding ring is not considered jewelry.” (similar to language re medical alert bracelets).
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 12:05pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 12:00pm
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Fish, Or Cut Bait ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Add to Goaltending definition the requirement of the ball having to be outside of the imaginary cylinder

Why?
Because, right now, you have a situation where a player touches the ball during a field-goal try, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, while the ball is in the cylinder, and the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, and, by strict interpretation of the written definition, the official can call either a goaltending violation, or a basket interference violation.

It's more of a "test taking" change, than a practical change.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 12:08pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 12:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Because, right now, you have a situation where a player touches the ball during a field-goal try, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, while the ball is in the cylinder, and the ball has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, and, by strict interpretation of the written definition, the official can call either a goaltending violation, or a basket interference violation.
And? There are other situations, all far more likely, where we have multiple choices for violations.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 12:11pm
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For Purposes Of The Written Test ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
And? There are other situations, all far more likely, where we have multiple choices for violations.
I sincerely believe that this was an editing mistake by the committee, not an announced change, several years ago. The goaltending definition was fine as it was before the mistake, it should go back to the way it was, and, as I said, in a previous post, it's more of a "test taking" change, than a practical change.

If it really wasn't a mistake, and they had a good reason to drop that part of the definition, then they won't have a good reason to put that part of the definition back into the rulebook.

Previous to the 2004-05 season it was clear to all that there were five specific conditions under which goaltending could occur. Let's go back to those misty water colored memories. Simpler times, and simpler pleasures.

I believe that this goaltending mistake was a simple "brain fart", just like the dropping of the "captains request a line up after multiple substitutions" rule, that was, I believe, inadvertently dropped from the rulebook several years ago. I was one of several officials who brought that to the attention of the NFHS, and it was put back in the rulebook.

Sometimes (a kind word, maybe not deserved) the NFHS drops the ball, and, then, somebody has to pick it up.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 07:10pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 12:19pm
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Multiple Choices ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
There are other situations, all far more likely, where we have multiple choices for violations.
If you think that you can clear these up with just a few minor changes in the rulebook, then go ahead and make some suggestions next year. Sometimes they do listen. You may have to be persistent, but sometimes they do listen.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 12:33pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 12:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If you think that you can clear these up with just a few minor changes in the rulebook, then go ahead and make some suggestions next year. Sometimes they do listen. You may have to be persistent, but sometimes they do listen.
I don't see a need, that's the thing. Who cares? The penalty is the same, just pick one and go with it.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 01:04pm
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Cut, And Dry, No Debate Necessary ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I don't see a need, that's the thing. Who cares? The penalty is the same, just pick one and go with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It's more of a "test taking" change, than a practical change.
Maybe it's because I'm a retired middle school science teacher? Maybe it's because I'm now an analytical chemist? Maybe it because I served several years on my local board's training committee? Whenever possible (and sometimes it's not possible), I like simple, cut, and dry answers to questions; right, or wrong; yes, or no; correct, or incorrect; true, or false; basket interference, or goaltending. The less debate, the better I like it, keeping in mind that this sometimes can't be avoided, especially with more open ended, complex situations.

Imagine some type of written test, maybe for initial certification.

A1 tries for two point goal. B1 touches the ball while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, while the ball is in the cylinder, and while the ball has a possibility of entering the basket. Official rules a goaltending violation on B1 and awards A1 two points. Is the official correct?

Hopeful basketball official newbie notes "ball in the cylinder" and answers, "No", because he deems "ball in the cylinder" to be indicative of a basket interference violation.

Rather than get into a debate about if, and why, both "Yes", and "No", answers might be correct, as we often debate here on the Forum when the NFHS is unclear about a particular rule, definition, play, or situation, wouldn't it be nice to have one cut, and dry, answer here, with no debate necessary?

Imagine how much time we would save debating things here on the Forum if the NFHS were crystal clear on all their definitions, and rules?

I sincerely believe that a careless mistake was made in 2005-06, not an announced editorial rule change. It's simple to fix. Why not fix it?

If it weren't simple to fix (see team control/throwin/backcourt), I wouldn't try to fix it. I'm not that good at fixing complicated things. You should have seen me struggle to set all of my various clocks ahead one hour last weekend.

There are already enough players, coaches, and fans, that can't differentiate between basket interference, and goaltending. We really don't need any rules that feed into this myth.

The five part goaltending definition was good in 2004-05. Why wouldn't it be good in 2015-16?
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 07:11pm.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 01:31pm
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Thumbs down

Reducing the closely guarded distance from 6 feet to 3 feet will increase fouls, especially post play, by at least 25%.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 01:58pm
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I Know More About Open Heart Surgery Than College Basketball Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Refner View Post
Reducing the closely guarded distance from 6 feet to 3 feet will increase fouls, especially post play, by at least 25%.
Didn't the NCAA do this with womens basketball a few years ago? What was the result?
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 07:10pm
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Some of these suggested changes, like the wider lane, 6 PFs for DQ, advancing the ball on backcourt timeouts and the 10s backcourt count non-reset are pipe dreams until the NCAA adopts them first.

Adherence to the "rules changes trickle-down effect" is a tried and true method of the NFHS committee.

Yeah, except for maybe some definitions changes (SD, post-player, etc.) I see hardly any of these getting adopted. Except that maybe giving states the choice on shot clock use would be approved, because eight states already have them, and if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
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Old Sat Mar 14, 2015, 07:36pm
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How about the halves instead of quarters. We here in Minnesota have been playing 18:00 halves since the 05-06 season and it is going quite well thank you very much. Lower level games are 14 or 16 minute halves
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