Thoughts on forfeit?
 

Under a minute remaining in the 4th. H is up 6. V Coach ends up with the ball after a foul called on his player on a play in which she stole the ball. After my partner reports the foul he turns and asks the Coach for the ball. The Coach is very loudly complaining while holding the ball. After asking a second time the Coach throws him the ball very hard. My partner issues a Technical foul. The Coach continues to complain that he just passed him the ball like asked. I walk over and replace my partner. In which time the Coach keeps loudly complaining and gesturing with a final that's ridiculous thrown in. I issue a second technical foul and turn to walk away. It was approximately 25 seconds between technicals without a stop in complaining or him sitting. Is this too quick?
While walking away the Coach yells and you're the guy I banned from calling any of our games so you got the opportunity to do it again. While shooting the six free throws the Coach makes his way to the locker room. On the next throw in a V player commits a common foul and then shoves the H player. My partner whistles her for a common foul and a Flagrant T. While shooting the first two free throws the assistant V coach is complaining to my partner while pacing and gesturing with his arms. After the first two free throws I replace my partner and tell him that I'm thinking of a forfeit if the assistant Coach will not comply. My partner says that is fine with him. I approach the assistant coach and tell him if he doesn't sit and stop complaining he will forfeit the game. His reply was "go ahead then." At this point we ruled the game a forfeit.
Thoughts on this? Was this too early to rule a forfeit? Should we have continued the game?

I have no idea what your specific rules are in your state that may govern when a forfeit happens. However, your primary job is to officiate a basketball game. That clearly wasn't taking place, and I have no problem with you deciding to call it. Especially since the play on the court began to get out of hand. By cutting bait you may have actually saved someone from injury,or yourself from becoming a youtube video. Cheers!

I think about the only thing you could have done differently is whacked the AC for his antics after the flagrant T prior to ruling a forfeit. However, I rather doubt that would've changed the outcome.

If a coach throws a ball at me "very hard" he's done right then and there.

I would've whacked the assistant pretty much the second he started "pacing and complaining". That may have shut everyone up and let you guys get back to basketball, but it might not have. Nothing wrong with ending the game here though.

Why was he pacing at all? He didn't have a box.

Food for thought...

Maybe it's just me, but when someone, who is clearly upset/emotional , is asked a "loaded" question ("Do you want me to?....") or issued a challenging statement ("If you don't ____, then I will ___!"), 9 out of 10 times you're going to get an emotional response - "GO AHEAD!".

Unfortunately, officials tend to respond in a similarly emotional way ("FINE!).

Although it is sometimes difficult, the officials need to be the calmest people in the gym/arena. I'm sure you didn't want to forfeit the game - nobody does...heck, I'm sure the coach didn't want to either. You simply have to get the coach to calm down.

Ref: "If you don't sit down and stop complaining, then you will forfeit the game."
(Here comes the emotional response...)
Asst. Coach: "Go ahead then!"
(Instead of reflexive emotional response...)
Ref: "Coach, you don't really want to forfeit. Think about it...I'm sure your Athletic Director and Principal won't be happy with a forfeit. I understand you're upset and frustrated. I understand you don't like what has happened. Let's work together to simply get thru this game and finish it without any more problems. It's about the kids. Nobody wants a forfeit. Let's play...." Then get the game started again.

An official can certainly "show 'em who's the boss" and forfeit the game. If that happens, I'm sure that the assignor, conference commissioner, AD's, & others "powers that be" will support the official. We both know that the official isn't ALWAYS right and that there is definitely more than one way to handle a situation. In my opinion, If I have to forfeit a game, then I feel like I didn't handle the situation as well as it could have been. It is only the extreme circumstance that calls for a forfeit; haven't personally experienced one in 15yrs of doing all levels from youth bball up to D2 college games....

Nice post. For anyone looking for ways to manage coaches, you might consider Verbal Judo - the Gentle Art of Persuasion. the author, a former beat cop among other things, talks about learning how to get people to do what he really wanted -- and part of that was figuring out what he really wanted them to do and what might induce them to do it. Not a be-all-and-end-all book, but interesting thoughts on managing other people. (As officials, we need to have confidence and thick skins, which leads many of us (like cops) toward more authoratarian models -- which aren't always the most conducive toward getting to the right place.)

I agree that one needs to try and work together but who the @#$@#$ cares. Why is the coach not responsible for his actions. Being emotional is not an excuse. If they can't control their emotions I'm certainly not going to do that for them.

I've also found that the more you interject and try to talk to a coach that is very upset, the worse things generally get.

I also have never had a forfeit, and what was described I wouldn't either (at least at the Varsity level or higher). I would just adjudicate the rules as needed, and if it lead to a forfeit because there were no more coaches left to coach, then I would forfeit the game.

From the OP, I generally don't agree with how they managed what was described.

All I think was needed, "Coach, you cannot stand the rest of the game unless it's for a timeout."

Make sure he hears it and move on. From there you can call a T if he doesn't comply, but give him a few seconds to sit.

I don't see myself ever threatening a forfeit. If it reaches that point, you just do it. As mentioned above, the AC apparently needed to be told that he has no box. Hopefully this happens seldom enough that they really don't know. Then proceed with a zero tolerance policy for any nonsense.

This.

Doesn't seem to be much you could have done with the HC. The AC may be different, but he needs to know you can't behave that way regardless of how the refs are handling things.

"Coach, I know this probably never happens, so I want to make sure the expectations are clear. Once the HC got his T, the team loses the coaching box for the rest of the game. This means you can't stand and coach your kids. Speaking of coaching the kids, you're going to have to start focusing on that, because this isn't going to play out very well for your kids otherwise."

I'd say this all while standing next to him, if possible, so I don't have to yell it across the floor and show him up. I might even start with, "I'm saying this quietly so I don't show you up in front of the entire gym." You've got 6 FTs to shoot, plenty of time for this conversation.

Whether or not you choose to communicate briefly with the AC or try to talk him/her down I don't think I bring up forfeiting the game. Just keep calling what needs to be called as happens:

1) The report going to my assignor and the league now has an even greater body of evidence demonstrating the issues and fault.

2) At some point something will give anyway: A) The V teaam will get to a point with less then 1 minute to play where you can just let it end. B) They will progress to a point where you will not have to choose to forfeit but will be required by rule to end the game - lack of players, lack of coach, etc. Depending on your areas rules. I know for us as soon as there is no certified coach on the sideline the game ends.

Honestly, I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think calling the game means the official failed. Sometimes, you have no recourse. Evaluated it? Absolutely, but blanket statements like this just aren't true, IMO.

I also don't think calling a forfeit should be considering a "show 'em who's the boss" move.

I think the OP actually thought it would help to let the AC know what the consequences were going to be. He miscalculated, but I don't think he was on a power trip. Once the AC responded the way he did, the OP was left with no choice after having backed himself into a corner.

That's precisely why I don't like making those absolute statements.

The good that will come from this.
1. HC now knows there are limits to what he can get away with. Not everyone requires a chair be thrown across the floor to call a 2nd T.

2. AC knows when the official warns him his actions may result in a bad result, he should probably stop.

3. HC knows he may not be able to trust his AC to take the reigns.

Because I think it would be easier to write up a team for HC and AC ejections, I would just give the AC a technical foul and then, if needed, another technical foul. At that point, the AC is ejected and becomes the AD's problem.
I've been told not to give a warning if I'm not willing to go through with it. It was good that you followed through with forfeiting the game.
I would block that team in the future.

Unfortunately, it's the officials who take the "who the @#$@#$ cares" attitude who pass out techs like "candy at Halloween" because they do not have the ability or people skills to deal with situations (like these) when they occur.

One of the points of my previous post was NOT that an official has to control the emotions of the coach....it's that officials have to control THEIR own emotions. An emotional response usually results in skipping over several options and results in going directly to the most severe penalty possible.

EVERYONE has emotions and feelings. The people (be it players, coaches, officials, etc.) that are able to control their emotions and react appropriately to situations, are the ones who achieve the most success. The best officials work to resolve the problem by exhausting every possible option and only use a T as a last resort.

The OP asked for ideas on how to handle the situation differently. IMHO, there were several other ways to handle the situation than to simply end the game when it did.

Coaches would behave better if officials (as a whole) assessed more technical fouls.

Watch an NBA game once to see how much those officials take from coaches and players.

This is where I come down on this too. To me it would have been much easier to whack the AC and let them know, one more and you're gone and then this turns into a forfeit, and none of us wants that. So let's just get through these 50 seconds and go home.

And why on earth is the AC pacing and ranting. He/she should have been sitting already, and especially after HC left.

Are you the same "official" that has only given 2 T's in 5 years? You're putting the whole relationship onus between the coach and official on the official. That's BS. I don't buy into it, I don't buy into that chicken @#$@ philosophy and I don't hand out T's like candy. Maybe a handful of T's a year, of which maybe one or two is on a coach, and I certainly don't buy in to the belief that I have to carry all the responsibility in this deal.

I agree with your last paragraph, but it's so counter, because the successful officials hand out probably more T's than even I do.

This is a HTBT situation but based on my interpretation of the events as described there are several things I would advise to handle differently.

1) "The Coach continues to complain that he just passed him the ball like asked. I walk over and replace my partner. In which time the Coach keeps loudly complaining and gesturing with a final that's ridiculous thrown in. I issue a second technical foul and turn to walk away. It was approximately 25 seconds between technicals without a stop in complaining or him sitting. Is this too quick?"

I can't say if it was too quick for the 2nd T but I can say that it sounds like both you and your partner were hanging out way too LONG by the HC after issuing the initial T. I pregame that we treat coach Ts like boxing- stick and move. Everyone should get away from the coach. You should not have "replaced" your partner. Call the T, administer the FTs, and get the game going. If he's still standing then you quickly remind him he's lost the box and needs to have a seat. And then the 2nd whack if needed. You say 25 seconds had passed from the first T to the 2nd. Have we shot any FTs yet? Way too much time talking to the coach and its only asking for trouble to continue engaging the coach when he's acting like that. Stick him and get away, give him a moment to calm down, and then toss him if needed.

2) "While shooting the first two free throws the assistant V coach is complaining to my partner while pacing and gesturing with his arms. After the first two free throws I replace my partner and tell him that I'm thinking of a forfeit if the assistant Coach will not comply."

I've been in some hostile situations with coaches and my mind has never gone straight to a forfeit. Let the AC know he does not have the privilege of the coaching box and whatever words work for you to let him know that you and your partner have control of the game and he needs to focus on coaching. Whack him too if needed. But I just don't see how your mind goes straight to a forfeit and I would never threaten a forfeit in that manner.

Again, its a HTBT but it doesnt sound to me like a good job of handling the situation. It sounds like you and your partner engaged the coaches on poor terms and then went to the nuclear option rather quickly. Learn to be more direct and efficient in your discussions with coaches and perhaps develop more presence and command of the game. My assignors would be shocked and pissed if we had called a forfeit and then described what was in the OP.

Rule 5; Section 4; Art. 1 TRAVISTY
That team was making a "TRAVISTY" of the game. In my opinion you did the correct thing.

My goodness. Travisty? And why is there a little red squiggly line under it when I type that?

And you're looking at the book for a reason to forfeit a game? The referee always has the rule backing to do so, but that means little.

Forfeit is the nuclear option. It can be a career limiter. Someone on the crew needs to have a come-to-Jesus moment with an assistant coach. Continue to eject until you reach the person that will listen....or maybe they'll walk out, which makes a much easier report to write than "we forfeited the game."

Verbal judo here is a waste of time.

I agree with the comment above -- too many officials want to engage after a technical foul -- stick and move. Call it and don't be anywhere in the vicinity until after the free throws are shot. I don't care if he stands, rants, says stuff he shouldn't at that point, cause I'm nowhere near him. If I have to eject him there, it will be such that everyone knows why he's getting ejected.

WAY too many words here. No time for a novella here.

Better, don't give the if-then at all. "Coach - ENOUGH." usually gets the point across. Another T should if that doesn't.

"Knock it off" is the baseball phrase that pays. It's quick, to the point, and there's no ambiguity.

Forfeit is the ABSOLUTE last option. One ejection of a head coach (that has left the vicinity) is NOWHERE close to that point.

I am asking this as an honest question and not as a way of validating what I did. Why is the forfeit such a terrible option? Why do we need to play the last few seconds. We have had a Coach tossed (a rarity here), a player tossed (a rarity here), players clapping and gesturing sarcastically ( i left this out originally as I forgot it until I watched the tape), and now an assistant coach who won't sit and it very loudly complaining from 20 feet while standing near half court? What point would you draw the line? What if the assistant gets two and tossed, do we give the third guy a chance, and if he acts the same?

Because these things take on a life of their own. In the end, all anyone will remember is that you forfeited a game.

The more I think about this the more ridiculous it sounds and IMO its really an unprofessional way to handle the situation. As noted above, this would be a definite career limiter here and would impact your future schedule VERY negatively.

Given how the 2 officials ultimately handled it I have to wonder if even the first T was justified. The coach threw the ball "very hard." Thats entirely subjective. OP, How did the coach throw the ball at your partner? If it was just a "hard" two hand chest pass that your partner caught then I don't know. Again HTBT but it sounds to me like you guys just stooped to the coach's level way too easily. If the coach threw a baseball pass or really threw it that hard then a flagrant is justified but I'm just having a hard time envisioning this.

Regardless, after the 1st T you and your partner are paying way too much attention to the coach. Stick and move and get the game going. Then with the AC, if all that happened is what is described in the OP then, I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. First you say he was "pacing and gesturing with his hands." Big deal! Tell him he doesnt have the privilege of a coaching box and sit his butt down. Then you say that you told him "if you don't sit and stop complaining then you will forfeit the game." That's awful IMO. You don't communicate in threats. Period. You let him know that by rule, he does not have the privilege of the coaching box, and you address his complaining like a professional official.

Also, you twice say you "replaced" your partner, which indicates to me that your partner was engaged with the HC and then the AC and you felt the need to physically go over and take over the conversation. Did you feel your partner not capable of handling these situations on their own? There are times when we switch positions to communicate something to a coach but "replacing" your partner as in the OP is a bad habit and in this case you made both situations MUCH WORSE.

Several responses here have affirmed or justified your actions here. But you are asking for feedback and I think its a disservice not to offer an honest opinion. This was a terrible way to handle this situation and one that I hope you can learn several things from in terms of dealing with coaches.

For one, in a real (scholastic) game you didn't go to all the steps you could have...the forfeit is a last ditch...nuclear option and you went to it wayyyy too early. Second, it's easier to defend handing out T for behavior that you describe rather than going straight to a forfeit.

Why didn't you address the assistant first before giving him an ultimatum? Why didn't you just assess him a T? If the bench was being an issue, why didn't you direct the former/current head coach to address that? If he didn't do that, why didn't you pick out a single offender or assess a tech to the team if it was a collective effort?

As the kids are saying now...you went 0 to 100...too quick.

By replaced I mean the SOP here is to switch with the partner who just called the T so that they are not in the T position.

As far as the speed of the ball. The first T was a quick underhand one armed throw.

You could have grabbed the ball, thrown it back really hard at the coach's head and claim he had started a game of dodge ball! :eek:

Thanks for the clarifications. I know I'm using strong words here and don't want it to sound like an attack. I'm just offering my opinion and hope its helpful.

I'm having a difficult time imagining a quick underhand throw of the ball "hard" enough that would make me T the coach. And I have a better understanding of what you mean by replace but I would strongly advise subscribing to the stick and move theory and both you and your partner get away after whacking a coach. Ejection of HC could have been avoided here.

As APG said, I just don't think you and your partner used many of the tools available to you as officials to calm the situation and finish the last minute of the game. And I find it a little scary that you have to ask why a forfeit is a terrible option.

Bottom line is what you had does not seem to be that out of the ordinary but your result definitely was. Calling a forfeit in a scholastic game is something that would stay with you for the rest of your career here and not in a good way.

You basically described a coach who did a quick underhand toss of the ball back to your partner, a dead ball push, and the rest is "complaining, pacing and gesturing" by an Asst Coach who was never told he didnt have the box, and clapping and gesturing by the bench." I'd bet good money that somewhere in HS basketball there are games every week that have much more than this take place and the officials don't even think of calling a forfeit.
Issue all the Ts you need to, send an email to your assignor, scratch the coach, file a report, etc. I just don't see any justification here for going to the nuclear option.

Terp, I play modified men's softball over the summer and there are plenty of guys I know who can put a lot of speed and power on a ball underhanded. None of us were there and if the official thought the ball was thrown at him intentionally I can see the "T" and maybe even an ejection for that. As for the rest, I tend to agree with you that there a lot of different tools in the toolbox but sometimes, ending a bad situation is the best option. I have ended Men's wreck ball games because of the actions of the players/coaches. Wreck ball is different but given we weren't there, and did not work through and experience the entire game and actions of the bench, I just cannot say that the forfeit wasn't the best course. I will say, based upon the descriptions, it sounds like the T's were earned. As for the forfeit, I don't know. As for your suggestions that the assigner, school administration, the "league office", whatever, needed to be called and made aware, absolutely.

I don't think we have any basis to question the HC technical fouls. The AC, I think, should have been handled differently.

Do you really think the third guy is going to have a similar meltdown?

In fact, I've got a hunch the AC calms down if you warn. If not, you whack. If that doesn't work, you whack again and move on to the next guy.

I value your opinion and do not feel like I was attacked. The throw was very hard and even brought the Oh's from the crowd when he did it. Not that the crowd decided the T, I was just pointing it out that many people thought it was excessive.

You are correct he was never told he didn't have the box. I was on my way there while he was yelling at us across the court. That is when I talked to my partner preceding the ending of the game.

From the beginning I've said its a HTBT situation. But given the outcome and the fact that the OP asked I think its fair to question everything. I think the 2nd T on the HC could have been avoided had they gotten away from the coach and administered the FTs. Maybe not but I think its fair to question it.

Thanks, I will defer to your judgement on the throw since you were there. You said there was tape. It would be really helpful if there was a way to share any of the video of what transpired in the last minute of this game.

As officials we often play things back in our heads and think of ways to do things differently and/or better. I commend you on your willingness to put things out there and take feedback.

The tape doesn't show a lot due to the fact that the camera is panned to the far right to see almost off of the action.

Also I have never heard from the state on the incident. I sent an email to them to get their opinion of it.

I brought it here for feedback so I am willing to hear all opinions.

Does the video show the coach holding the ball and throwing it at the official? Would you be willing to let us look at the video?

On the video you can only see the official at mid court and the ball come into the screen. You can not see the Coach.

I will say a coach throwing me a basketball is either just a normal pass of the ball and nothing, or a flagrant. It WOULD never just be a T in my book. It's a one or the other IMO.

He either had intent to peg you or he didn't. The second T is irrelevant.