Dead Ball Technical question.
 

Situation that I had last week that has been bugging me. Just wanted some insight from the gurus here!

A1 and B1 dive for a loose ball and tie it up. I come in and call a held ball. As I look up to see the arrow, B3 kicks A1 in the face on the floor. My partner gets the dead-ball technical and we ejected B3. For the record, Team B had the arrow.

Since the held ball occurred before the DBT, how to we handle the AP? Do we shoot the FTs and then go to the AP and follow through with the procedure for the held ball? Do we shoot FTs, give the ball to A and ignore the A?

Had never had this before in 20 years. Always something new.

Leave arrow as is, administer tech.

The arrow does not change because you never administer a AP throw-in.

You just administer the flagrant technical and let anyone shoot the FTs that is available on Team A and put the ball at half court, opposite the table.

Peace

Twist And Shout (The Beatles, 1964) ...
 

What if the held ball occurred just as the horn to end the first period sounded, and then the kick occurred after the horn?

The first period ended with the horn sounding? Right? After the one minute intermission between the two period ends, doesn't the second period begin with the free throws for the technical foul, followed by a non-possession arrow throw in by the offended team (Team A) with no change in the direction of the arrow (still for Team B on next alternate possession situation, next held ball, ball out of bounds caused by two opponents, other relevant situations, or after halftime)?

As stated by fellow posters, the penalty for the DBT is 2 shots, and the throw-in for the offended team. Thus, the AP arrow is not affected

I've seen the extracurricular stuff a lot, doesn't always rise to the level of calling a T, but it's something we need to watch. This is why I've always been trained that the calling official should not be looking away to see the arrow. Off ball official should glance up if need be, but the on ball official shouldn't look anywhere else until the players are separated.

Valentine's Day Arrow Of Love ...
 

We almost never look at the table arrow. Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, we're taught, from the get go, to keep an extra whistle in our pocket, and to switch it every time the alternating possession arrow changes.

We're all really good at this. This past week, as the umpire, I forgot (a rarity for me) to switch my whistle after the third/fourth period intermission alternating possession throwin. The next held ball, I felt for the whistle in my pocket, and came out with a direction, and a color. My partner immediately corrected me, and a quick look at the table arrow confirmed my error. With two whistles, and an arrow, two out of three almost always wins. If we have to, we'll throw some memory into the mix.

Also, there's no arrow at the table for all of my Catholic middle school games, the pocket whistle is the official arrow. When my partner and I can't agree, which very seldom happens, we use our memory, and my partner almost always remembers better than me.

Now, I am not suggesting that others use this procedure (When in Rome ...). All I know, is that it's the way we've done things here since 1985 (possession arrow adopted). Rookies are taught that this is the correct "local" mechanic, and they are expected to do it. All 325 of us are expected to do it. Maybe because it works. "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it" (Thomas Bertram "Bert" Lance, 1977).

Even then, if we still screw up, we just tell the coach that we'll be sure to give him two of the next three arrows, and he'll be totally satisfied.

Official(s) tableside ought never turn around to look at direction of the AP arrow...ever. Official opposite table with most convenient line-of-sight to the table gives a quick glance, then gives directional signal. Other official(s) pick up on that to prep for next throw-in. Maximum amount of time with all eyes on players as possible.
Of course, when in Nome, do as the Nomans do. Just so heads aren't unnecessarily turning away from potential dead ball action areas.

Good advice for those who live in specific corners of Connecticut. Not so much for the rest of us.

Exactly

Everybody Has Their Own Little Fiefdoms ...
 

Thus,

I had this last weekend. My partner calls a held ball and I'm opposite the table. Before I can check the arrow, V11, one of the players involved in the tie-up, pulls the ball away and swings her body so that she catches the home player with a shoulder to the chest. I didn't think it was flagrant, but serious enough for me to call an intentional technical. I could only :confused: when the V coach told me, "You need to call more fouls." I replied, "Coach, I just called one," and moved to my new spot. To top it off, this was 4th grade CYO girls.

Today, in my 6th grade girls and boys games, we had a couple of times where the players tying the ball up kept going after the whistle, but closing down on them while saying "easy" or "play's over" was enough to stop them and keep the situation from escalating.

That said, I agree with Adam. I believe dead ball officiating was a POE last season. This is a good example of that.

Might be worth noting that this ruling is nearly the same for both NFHS (Flagrant Tech) and NCAA (Flagrant 2 Tech) because the POI is not used for a Flagrant 2 Tech.

After the free throws, the only difference in college is that the ball could be put in play at the division line on either side of the table. Most college officials go opposite, anyway, even though they have a choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but had this been a routine POI technical, the POI would have been the AP throw-in?

Your NCAA rules knowledge is a little off. Go do some research an post again once you've read the section on technical fouls and flagrant personal fouls.

By the way, there is no such thing as a "routine" technical foul in the rules book. What do you mean by that? It could mean different things to different people.

For NCAA, yes. The OP was high school, so there isn't a POI tech (unless multiple)

NCAAM 4-15.3d(1) Flagrant 2 Contact Technical. If I was off by one word, I'll accept that [very egotistical] correction. By the way, why would I have any reason to look up the section on flagrant personal fouls in this instance? This was clearly a dead ball foul after the held ball.

Then we move to NCAAM 10-3-1e + 10-3-1 PENALTY & 10-3-1 RESUMPTION OF PLAY. This is a Class A unsporting tech that qualifies as a Flagrant 2 Contact Tech. Tell me again how my rules knowledge is a little off? Seems like it was pretty spot on.

Lastly, the word "routine" is located nowhere in any basketball rule book. I'm pretty sure most people can figure that out. Are adjectives not authorized in this forum? I didn't get that memo.

NOTE: I didn't look up the NCAAW verbiage, and I know it's a little different, but the end result would be the same.

Nope, a dead ball tech in NCAA men is not POI, so please refrain from confusing the situation with talk of POI.

What if the dead ball tech is non-contact and not a flagrant 2? Would that not result in POI?

So would that then be an unsporting technical? If so, what difference does it make if the ball was live or dead?

His point (a valid one) is that "routine" doesn't really tell us anything about what you were thinking on this, and does sort of leave us wondering what you meant. Can we guess? Sure, but it's a guess.

Umm... Yes it is. Before you go telling others to check the rules, you better be pretty sure yourself. The situation cc posted did NOT say dead ball contact. A "dead ball technical foul" written like that should be POI.

You're right about this, the ball being live or dead is irrelevant.

Cross country, am I correct in saying that your original question about a routine POI technical wasn't concerned with how the tech happened, but rather whether or not to go to the arrow after? That's what I would assume most reasonable people would gather from the phrase "routine POI technical." The point is the majority of technical fouls in fact ARE infractions that are resumed POI, and if a held ball was the last thing to happen before the technical foul, then we go to the arrow.

"Contact" dead ball technicals are not POI in NCAAM. That word is important. Mouthing off during a dead ball is a class A and still POI. Dunking a dead ball is a Class B and still POI. Adding a player to the roster at the 6 minute mark..before the game..while the ball is dead is an administrative tech--POI.

The amount of misplaced pride in an area so clearly still in the mid-80s amazes me. 2-man, wearing belts, carrying an A/P binky in the pocket...

I started in the 1980s too. I've changed with the times.

Official opposite the table look when convenient. After all the crap is over. There's no hurry to signal direction, after all.

Hey, At Least We Stopped Using Laced Basketballs ...
 

The "Belt Era", in my little corner of Connecticut, may soon be over.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6079...5&pid=15.1&P=0

There was an unannounced change in the Handbook of IAABO (International) 2014-15. Please note the differences below:

Handbook of IAABO 2013-14
Page 2: IAABO Uniform
The approved official uniform established by the Executive Committee of IAABO shall be:
1) Long black slacks

Handbook of IAABO 2014-15
Page 2: IAABO Uniform
The approved official uniform established by the Executive Committee of IAABO shall be:
1) Long black pants (beltless, and not tapered)

This unannounced change is on our local board's agenda to be discussed at the next business meeting.

We're gonna party like it's 1999.

Nevermore (Edgar Allan Poe) ...
 

I once hurried this directional signal and popped a player right in the face.

We've had previous threads on this forum discussing coaches who are out a step or two on the court during a live ball. Well an illegal screen (team control signal) by a table side C can remind them in a hurry that they are to be on the sideline!! I almost caught a coach clean on the jaw once, he actually leaned back, Matrix-style to avoid it, falling on top of his assistant coaches!! Needless to say, he did a pretty good job of staying back after that....

Yes, it was.

Funny how I added an unnecessary word, and Nevada forgot a very important one, and between the two of us my simple question took about eight rounds of posting to resolve. All because of two words.

Fine Young Cannibals ...
 

Two words can be just as important as one punctuation mark:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...8&pid=15.1&P=0

Please tell me IAABO has also banned members from mentioning the "b" word in online forums??

Fashion Police - Internal Affairs Division ...
 

Only if it's "tapered".

"We Didn't Start the Fire" (Billy Joel, 1989).

You completely missed the point. Since you have just agreed that whether the ball is live or dead is irrelevant for an unsporting technical foul, the conclusion must be that the only tech for which it matters to specify that the ball was dead is the one involving contact. That was the point which I was trying to make to CC with my previous line of questioning as that kind of T also doesn't result in POI.

His "routine" technical description was woefully unclear as shoving an opponent during a dead ball may be considered a "routine" technical by many officials. Others may feel the same way about a player expressing displeasure with a call.

I didn't say routine technical. I said routine POI technical, thereby concretely excluding contact dead ball fouls.

I concede the word "routine" was superfluous. But good heavens, it wasn't woefully unclear!

If I ever needed a lawyer, I would retain Nevada. He is a master of manipulative persuasion (a.k.a. "spin").