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-   -   Rules Question on strange D1 Ending (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99209-rules-question-strange-d1-ending-video.html)

Camron Rust Sun Feb 01, 2015 08:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 953211)
Pretty sure it does. I've spoken with several college officials who have told me to try to find a way to say he was pushed out and only call this if there was clearly no contact causing the player to go OOB.

Sounds like officials that like to make things up. I don't usually listen to those.

Either he stepped out on his own or he didn't. If he was contacted and stil went out on his own, trying to find a excuse to avoid making the call is cowardly.

AremRed Sun Feb 01, 2015 09:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 953233)
Sounds like officials that like to make things up. I don't usually listen to those.

Either he stepped out on his own or he didn't. If he was contacted and stil went out on his own, trying to find a excuse to avoid making the call is cowardly.

Dunno about you but I tend to listen to college referees. I'm not saying lie and say he was pushed out when he wasn't. And if a player was pushed out then it's a valid excuse, not cowardly.

Camron Rust Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 953237)
Dunno about you but I tend to listen to college referees. I'm not saying lie and say he was pushed out when he wasn't. And if a player was pushed out then it's a valid excuse, not cowardly.

I listen to some and don't listen to others. Some officials move up by BS'ing their way along. I have no use for those.

You said they suggested you find a way to say they were pushed out. Either they were pushed out or not. I don't need to find a way to say they were pushed out.

crosscountry55 Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:39pm

So yeah, I get the college rule now. It's clear about going out of bounds and then being the first to receive a pass.

That part in red isn't in the NFHS rule for a "player OOB for an unauthorized reason." So in essence, you could call it right away in HS, though in practice I think we wait to see the result of the play, i.e. did the player gain a big advantage by avoiding a pick, getting an open look jumper, etc. I think that's the intent of the NFHS rule; it's just a bit more carefully encoded in the NCAA rules.

Thoughts? And/or how would you handle this same situation in a HS game?

Nevadaref Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 953251)
So yeah, I get the college rule now. It's clear about going out of bounds and then being the first to receive a pass.

That part in red isn't in the NFHS rule for a "player OOB for an unauthorized reason." So in essence, you could call it right away in HS, though in practice I think we wait to see the result of the play, i.e. did the player gain a big advantage by avoiding a pick, getting an open look jumper, etc. I think that's the intent of the NFHS rule; it's just a bit more carefully encoded in the NCAA rules.

Thoughts? And/or how would you handle this same situation in a HS game?

I'd enforce the rule and call a violation. It's really that simple.

Raymond Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:53pm

Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

MechanicGuy Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 953258)
Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

This.

Don't agree at all with the idea that if there's no foul he went out voluntarily.

Nevadaref Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 953258)
Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

I don't agree. Either the contact is a foul or the player leaving the court is at risk of being penalized with a violation (if first to touch in NCAA).

Nevadaref Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy (Post 953262)
This.

Don't agree at all with the idea that if there's no foul he went out voluntarily.

Got a ruling to back your opinion?

Raymond Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 953265)
Got a ruling to back your opinion?

The rule says "voluntarily". It doesn't say "if there is no foul".

Coach Bill Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:20am

Many offensive players get bumped while trying to rub off screens. Most of the time, the official passes on that contact (i.e., no foul). But, now if the contact moves him a tiny bit and the offensive steps on the line it's a foul, or if he is the first to touch, it's a violation. I guarantee the good officials are going to deem this non-voluntary, and play on.

Rich Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Bill (Post 953270)
Many offensive players get bumped while trying to rub off screens. Most of the time, the official passes on that contact (i.e., no foul). But, now if the contact moves him a tiny bit and the offensive steps on the line it's a foul, or if he is the first to touch, it's a violation. I guarantee the good officials are going to deem this non-voluntary, and play on.

I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

Coach Bill Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 953271)
I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

I agree with that.

Rich Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Bill (Post 953275)
I agree with that.

I'd like to see a look down the end line. Without that, I really can't do much other than trust the judgement of the D1 official that's standing right there looking at it.

Raymond Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 953271)
I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.


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