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-   -   Hitting the Ball with One's Fist (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99191-hitting-ball-ones-fist.html)

just another ref Fri Jan 30, 2015 03:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 952939)
As for the leg analogy, the ball touching the leg on the way down or even while in contact with the dribbler's hand is nothing. The ball must get "caught" there, frozen between the hand and leg, for it to be a violation.
In other words stationary, motionless, just like it is on the floor in the play at hand.

AremRed Fri Jan 30, 2015 03:31pm
Omg, let it rest guys.

See what I did there??

Adam Fri Jan 30, 2015 04:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 952924)
If it's pinned between the two, why is it not resting in/on both? Why is this different than when the dribbler pins the ball to his own leg?
Without his hand there, it's still going to rest on the floor.
Without his hand there, it's not going to stick to his leg.

That's the difference, but I think you know that.

just another ref Fri Jan 30, 2015 04:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 952956)
Without his hand there, it's still going to rest on the floor.
Without his hand there, it's not going to stick to his leg.

Now we're just talking gravity. The dribbler is ultimately responsible. How it got there doesn't matter. If the ball becomes pinned between the hand and anything, it seems to me that would end the dribble.

Adam Fri Jan 30, 2015 06:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 952957)
Now we're just talking gravity. The dribbler is ultimately responsible. How it got there doesn't matter. If the ball becomes pinned between the hand and anything, it seems to me that would end the dribble.
"anything?" You've got two options, really. The floor, or his person. If it's his person, then we generally consider him to be holding it. There's nothing about the floor that requires us to consider it the same as his leg.

just another ref Fri Jan 30, 2015 06:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 952971)
"anything?" You've got two options, really. The floor, or his person. If it's his person, then we generally consider him to be holding it. There's nothing about the floor that requires us to consider it the same as his leg.
The ball is not allowed to be stationary while in contact with the hand during a dribble. That is my interpretation. Having said that, I've never seen this happen and don't expect to see it. Seeing it in a game context might change this interpretation.

Camron Rust Fri Jan 30, 2015 08:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 952972)
The ball is not allowed to be stationary while in contact with the hand during a dribble. That is my interpretation. Having said that, I've never seen this happen and don't expect to see it. Seeing it in a game context might change this interpretation.
If that is the case, then you'll be calling a an illegal dribble after every single bounce if the dribbler is not moving. If the ball is going straight up and down, it is stationary for a moment on every single dribble at the apex of the dribble....and that is when the hand is usually in contact with the ball.

At rest in the hand isn't talking about it being momentarily stationary while touching the hand but being in constant contact for more than a brief contact with the hand (i.e, more than a bat or a tap) such that without the hand it would fall free.

just another ref Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 952976)
If that is the case, then you'll be calling a an illegal dribble after every single bounce if the dribbler is not moving. If the ball is going straight up and down, it is stationary for a moment on every single dribble at the apex of the dribble....and that is when the hand is usually in contact with the ball.

At rest in the hand isn't talking about it being momentarily stationary while touching the hand but being in constant contact for more than a brief contact with the hand (i.e, more than a bat or a tap) such that without the hand it would fall free.

I didn't word it the best, but I was still referring to the ball being pinned between the hand and whatever. When the ball is pinned long enough that it is discernibly stationary, I'm thinking that's too long.

johnny d Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:16pm
After listening to this argument go back and forth, I feel like hitting a lot more than the ball with the heel of my fist!:D

just another ref Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 952995)
After listening to this argument go back and forth, I feel like hitting a lot more than the ball with the heel of my fist!:D

I'm done.

sorry, Dad....

BigCat Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 952995)
After listening to this argument go back and forth, I feel like hitting a lot more than the ball with the heel of my fist!:D
Glad to see the anger management classes have been helping.:D dont schedule them in the afternoon next time. I was looking for you in a few places earlier in the day....;)


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