Who do you get.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams
Before the end of the 2nd quarter we've given an indirect to the bench.....

Originally Posted by just another ref

I assume you mean you T'd someone on the bench, which resulted in an indirect to the head coach?

I have the same question. Who was charged with the direct T which resulted in the first indirect to the coach? You cannot just charge an indirect T by itself to bench personnel. You need a specific offender. If it is a collective action such as multiple substitutes standing when not permitted, there is still a TEAM technical foul which is assessed resulting in the indirect to the coach. Indirects never exist totally on their own under high school rules.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have the same question. Who was charged with the direct T which resulted in the first indirect to the coach? You can just charge an indirect T by itself to bench personnel. You need a specific offender. If it is a collective action such as multiple substitutes standing when not permitted, there is still a TEAM technical foul which is assessed resulting in the indirect to the coach. Indirects never exist totally on their own under high school rules.

Do you? If you're C right in front of the bench, and someone on the bench behind you says something derogatory that's very worthy of a T, but you can't say with absolutely certainty which kid said it, you should still have a T.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Do you? If you're C right in front of the bench, and someone on the bench behind you says something derogatory that's very worthy of a T, but you can't say with absolutely certainty which kid said it, you should still have a T.

Yes, you need a specific offender. All indirects MUST have a direct called somewhere. You can not have an indirect without a direct. The two are tied together. That offender, however, can be identified as the "TEAM".

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You need a specific offender. If it is a collective action such as multiple substitutes standing when not permitted, there is still a TEAM technical foul which is assessed resulting in the indirect to the coach. Indirects never exist totally on their own under high school rules.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, you need a specific offender. All indirects MUST have a direct called somewhere. You can not have an indirect without a direct. The two are tied together. That offender, however, can be identified as the "TEAM".

Fair enough, and I guess that's what I meant. I thought Nevada was saying that you cannot call a T (even a team T) without a specific offender unless it is a collective team act

[Pantherdreams]

I'm not sure who the recieved the original bench tech whether it was a player or assistant.

Thanks for all the feedback.

When report got written it did mention the last two on the head coach were indirects. Won't impact though unless there is further investitgaion by league. Ejection results in automatic 1 game suspension for players or coaches.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'm not sure who the recieved the original bench tech whether it was a player or assistant.

Thanks for all the feedback.

When report got written it did mention the last two on the head coach were indirects. Won't impact though unless there is further investitgaion by league. Ejection results in automatic 1 game suspension for players or coaches.

This is why terminology is important. I can tell you for certain that it wasn't a player. Players are the five team members legally in the game. Players are not bench personnel and any technical charged to a player would not result in an indirect to the head coach.

It could have been a team member though.

[Pantherdreams]

Sorry I meant I wasn't aware which of the bench personnel was responsible as I didn't make the call. FIBA it is simply recorded as T to bench which = Indirect to coach.

Bench's in most of our gyms are on opposite side from fans. So any comments or actions can only have come from bench as you pass them.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Do you? If you're C right in front of the bench, and someone on the bench behind you says something derogatory that's very worthy of a T, but you can't say with absolutely certainty which kid said it, you should still have a T.

You may charge this as a team technical if you aren't certain who made the comment, but you SHOULD identify a specific offender. It is dangerous to penalize when you aren't sure who said the remark as it could have been a person a row or two behind the bench or a teenager walking by.

Originally Posted by frezer11

Fair enough, and I guess that's what I meant. I thought Nevada was saying that you cannot call a T (even a team T) without a specific offender unless it is a collective team act

We've had this discussion before on the forum and if the official has properly observed the infraction, then a specific individual is charged with the offense. This is 98% of the time. For the 2% situations in which the official is certain that the remark came from the bench, but for some reason doesn't know exactly who said it, a team tech may be assessed. That isn't the preferred sanction, but in a pinch it will have to suffice. It is always best to have a specific offender identified, except for the collective team acts such as those noted in the Case Book plays.