Most points scored by 1 player on 1 play - 10/15/other?
 

Under NFHS rules, what are the most points that can be theoretically scored by one player on a single basketball play? Exclude repeated technical/intentional/flagrant fouls.

I was using Case book from 2008-2009. (case plays listed may be different in current books)

Based on (Multiple Foul) Case 4.19.11, it could be 10.
B1-B5 simultaneously foul A1 attempting an unsuccessful 3-point shot?
2x5 = 10

Based on (False Multiple Foul) Case 4.19.12, it could be 15.
B1-B5 foul A1, all at different times, attempting an unsuccessful 3-point shot?
3x5 = 15

For False Multiple Fouls, if it is always and only 2 shots for each foul, then it would be 10 and not 15.

Please confirm or disprove these thoughts. Looking for rule/case references only, not stuff like whether it could happen or anything along those lines.

You seem to be mis-reading the Case play. If the 3-point shot is successful, the offended player gets 1 shot for each foul, and that could yield 5 points.

And if the 3-point shot is unsuccessful, the offended player gets 2 free throws for each foul, which could yield 4 points.

has anyone ever seen anything like that? I've never seen a ref call multiple fouls on a shot(of the d) even though it does happen.

I'm confused. How would it be 10fts? If two fouls on a three point shot, then three fts for each? So that equals 6. If the player made the three point shot, then fts for each foul? That equals 5.

he is in outer space. he is telling you all players on B, B1-B5, fouled a 3 point shooter…..

Thanks, I was seeing it as B1 and B5, not all 5 opponents on the floor. What was that Cartoon movie - Space Jam? . . .

I liked that movie. Good cheesey fun.

If it's all during the try, it's going to be viewed as approximately the same time. 10 FTs max

The cases were cited for mere reference. Why is everyone freaking out? In my question I used the word "theoretically."

As usual on this site, no one can give a clear answer. I was only looking for a number followed by a rule/case citation, nothing more. Even bob jenkins had to add "..its going to be viewed.." How it is viewed is irrelevant given what actually happened. I specifically went out of the way to say "not stuff like whether it could happen or anything along those lines." and it didn't matter. One person even called it "pointless" but yet posted, lol.

Situation: With just a few seconds remaining in the fourth quarter, B leads A by a score of 109 to 20. A1 attempts a three-point try, which is unsuccessful. While A1 is in the act of shooting, players B1, B2, B3, B4, and B5 commit a personal foul against A1 at approximately the same time. The clock is stopped with 0.5 seconds remaining. B's head coach, unhappy with the call, disrespectfully addresses an official and is charged with an unsporting technical foul. B's head coach disrespectfully addresses an official a second time and is charged with a second unsporting technical foul. Players B1, B2, B3, B4, and B5 each disrespectfully address an official two times and are each charged with two unsporting technical fouls. Bench personnel B6, B7, B8, B9, B10, B11, B12, B13, B14, as well as four of the team's five assistant coaches, disrespectfully address an official two times apiece and are each charged with two unsporting technical fouls. B's head coach; players B1, B2, B3, B4, and B5; and bench personnel B6, B7, B8, B9, B10, B11, B12, B13, B14, and the four assistant coaches who had been charged with two unsporting technical fouls are all disqualified. The other two bench personnel, B15 and the other assistant coach, disrespectfully address an official once and are each charged with one unsporting technical foul.

Ruling: This is a false multiple foul consisting of a multiple foul and several technical fouls. All awarded free throws will be shot with no players in marked lane spaces. A1 is awarded ten free throws for the multiple foul by B1, B2, B3, B4, and B5. After these free throws, any player or eligible substitute for A may shoot any or all of the 80 free throws awarded for the 40 technical fouls charged to B players and bench personnel. A will then be awarded a throw-in at the division line. The only B team member remaining is B15. B shall forfeit the game unless the referee believes B has an opportunity to win the game.

I will confirm the multiple foul situation. In fact I'm gonna tell that as a joke at my coaches meeting tomorrow as a joke. I'll let you know how it goes. :D

Nope....if is the same try, they're not going to be false multiple fouls. Only the 5 multiple fouls on a miss give you 10 points....no more. On a make, the same 5 fouls would potentially yield 8 points (3 for the make but 1 FT for each foul).

Are you guys saying if A1 goes up for a 2pt layup, gets fouled by B1 and continues for a shot and B2 comes in to block the shot but fouls A1, and the shot enters, A1 gets another 2 free throws 1 for each foul? never seen it before.

What if A1 misses the shot, how many free throws would be awarded?

Incorrect. How it's viewed is very relevant to this play, and it's clear. It's NOT a false multiple foul (that would be separate "plays" if I understand what you are asking), but it is a multiple foul. 10 FTs max.

[QUOTE=potato;950230]Are you guys saying if A1 goes up for a 2pt layup, gets fouled by B1 and continues for a shot and B2 comes in to block the shot but fouls A1, and the shot enters, A1 gets another 2 free throws 1 for each foul? never seen it before.[/quote[

By rule, yes. In practice, no.

For multiple fouls:

1 FT for each foul if no try, a 2-point try (successful or not), or a successful 3-point try.

2 FTs for each foul if an unsuccessful 3-point try, or an I or F

You originally stated "If it's all during the try..." You used a pronoun but there were two plays, both being different. Each play had exactly what actually happened, not how it was viewed.

The first case/play is indeed a multiple foul according to the case book.

The second case/play is indeed a false multiple foul according to the case book.

So, not sure what you meant by "it." So frustrating. Pronouns should be outlawed, lol.

Original post indicated no Technical Fouls. Sigh.

Now you know the source of the question, a trivia question asked at a meeting.


It is simple:

1) In one act/motion, A1 attempts an unsuccessful 3-point shot and is fouled by 5 defenders AT THE SAME TIME. How many points can theoretically be scored?

2) In one act/motion, A1 attempts an unsuccessful 3-point shot and is fouled by 5 defenders AT DIFFERENT TIMES. How many points can theoretically be scored?

Those are the plays. There is nothing more to add. There are no viewpoints, technical fouls, or any other information and we are not in space.

Who can simply provide a number and a case/rule as an answer?

I have a question. Why is this the case? I've seen a shooter on his way up get fouled, release the shot, then get leveled by an attempted shot blocker. I've never expected my shooter to get more than the accustomed 2 free throws.

In another thread Mutantducky brought up a scenario where he was adamant that he'd award free throws to a shooter that has released the shot and no longer in the act of shooting. By rule he was wrong but in his defense I've seen it multiple times. It's almost as if in practice, if the ball is still in the air, the shots are awarded even if the shooter is no longer in the act of shooting.

Why would the letter of the rule not be followed in this circumstance but the letter of the rule was important his circumstance?

To qualify this, I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or the other. I'm here because understanding the rules and there interpretations make me a better coach and has helped immensely in communicating with officials properly.

It is a matter of penalizing more the rules allow for the infraction that has occurred (shooter having already landed) vs. applying judgement to not call a foul on the 2nd contact since it can be judged that two contacts typically don't create any more disadvantage than one. However, the multiple foul exists for that one time that is just might be needed.

Just like in society, there are some rules that are never enforced. The rule/case books are in need of editing.

Multiple fouls happen every game. It is NEVER called/adjudicated properly. There are countless times when a shooter near the basket gets fouled by more than one person. Only one foul is called. I've even seen plays where an official jokingly says aloud "pick one." Just like Rule 4-24 Article 7 happens EVERY game and is not enforced based on letter of rule. (I sense another topic coming)

Art 7. It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.

Your last example doesn't work, especially with this year's POE.

As for your other complaint, the reflexive answer to any multiple foul question will always include a warning to never call it. The next one to make this call will be the first. Ever. Anywhere.

Every game? Really?
 

Opinion or do you have some statistical evidence to back this up? In 30 years of officiating 50-55 games/year only saw it once.

i'm sorry i said you were in outer space. i say the answer is 3. "how many points ON A single play?" the free throws are separate "plays." now if you said "as a result of" or something else i'd do all the other thinking….

The rule on multiple fouls says "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME"

All fouls during the second play will be "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME". So, the second play is not a False Multiple Foul play; the second play is a Multiple Foul play.

The first play is also a Multiple Foul play.

So, both plays are adjudicated the same. 10 FTs.

"Saw it" or "saw it called"?

I meant that multiple fouls occur all the time, however, I have never seen a multiple foul called/adjudicated.

on the facts now--unsuccessful 3 point shot i will say the answer is 0 can be scored on that play. any free throws are separate plays. as far as the number of free throws--

the definition of false multiple foul says 2 or more fouls by same team and last committed before clock started. we have a case book play which says airborne A1 fouled in act of shooting by B1. B2 slides into landing area and fouls A1 before he gets foot to ground. Ruling calls those false multiple fouls. 2 shots for each. so we know in that situation they are not to be considered "at approximately same time." the play has been in case book forever...

in the second play mentioned we are told that first foul is committed and then the others, different times. say first foul was on arm--last foul a block before shooter returns to floor. 3 in between. i think you would call them all false multiples.

You've only seen multiple players foul the same shooter once in 30 years?

Every game may be a bit extreme, but once in 30 years seems extreme, also.

Not only have I never seen it called, I've never heard of anyone who has seen it called. Haven't even heard a myth, or seen a fuzzy photo. At least with Sasquatch, we've got some photos.

One has to love you bob. We have been discussing Case 4.19.11 and Case 4.19.12. Directly in the book, for Case 4.19.12, it is titled "False Multiple Foul" and you are saying it is not a False Multiple Foul.

Yes, I realize that this is off-topic and apologize. I presume that bob notified the NFHS of their "error" and that they will be correcting it in future case books. What was their response? For any upcoming posts bob, please just quickly indicate that the NFHS book is incorrect. With that, we won't have so many back-and-forth posts. We will know, immediately, to disregard the book, and go by what you say.

At the very least, bob did provide an actual number in his first responsive post.

After all this, try reading NFHS Case 6.7.4, which involves multiple fouls by opponents at different times (False Multiple Foul). I have seen that occur dozens of time but again, never called and adjudicated as written. We probably have all seen it. A1 driving hard to the hoop, B1 reaches and fouls A1 on the arm, then A1 charges into B2.

6.7.4 involves false DOUBLE fouls. opponents involved. multiple fouls involve teammates. yes you have more than one foul but how they are classified depends on who commits them.

The only way this can be literally at different times is if the shooter goes up, gets hit and thrown in the air, caught by another defender and thrown back in the air, caught by another... etc.

The amount of time between the shooter going up and landing, in normal play, is still "approximately at the same time".

My guess on this... somewhere between once in 30 years and every single game. I bet I'm right.

i agree if we are talking about normal usage of the words. but 4.19.12 tells us that being fouled in the air on a shot and then fouled again on landing are not "approximately the same time." those are to be considered false multiple fouls as opposed to just multiple fouls.

Agreed. Throw 3 more fouls in there in the interim, though...

oh, i know it is goofy and won't happen. but those 3 are between the first and last. they are also false multiples. false multiple definition says "2 or more" fouls by same team such that LAST committed before clock started following FIRST. the case play shows us the first and last are false multiples. so the 3 in between are also. (2 or more)…thx

take a look at the case play--4.19.12. i go up. you foul me in air. i start coming down and before one foot touches ground MD slides under me. you guys on same team. ruling--false multiple--2 free throws each….

it is their play..and yes by that play 15 is the number.

I confess:
 

Well, Adam, I'll admit I've seen several "maybees?" over the years that were quickly interpreted as one foul. But there was this one that jumped out right in front of me, clearly daring me to call a multiple foul - no question about it.

Yes, I looked it up after I posted that...and deleted my post. According to the case, you're right. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is what the case says.

agreed...and remember

"once the stands empty and it becomes a free for all, my job is done."

deecee January 14, 2015.

(that makes me laugh every time i think about it...)

[QUOTE=bob jenkins;950236]The 1FT for each try i assume is the penalty for the foul after the initial foul?

[QUOTE=potato;950388]It's the penalty for each of the fouls that is a part of the multiple foul.