Ejection
 

Had an ejection in the Girls Varsity before my game. Late in a tight game that eventually went to OT.

We were visitors. Home # 5 gets whistled for a hold. A couple colorful metaphors from the player earns her "T" number one. After she get's the "T", player #5 gives the "T" sign right back to the official, literally 6 inches in front of the officials face. Whack #2.

Coach gets the player to the bench while official reports all the shananigans to the table. Then informs the coach that #5 is ejected and has to leave the confines.

Since the locker room is opposite the benches, #5 has to cross the court. (Well she could have walked around the endline). But in her stroll across the floor, walks between the other 2 officials and flips them each a bird. Then does a 360 turn with said birds held high for all to see.

Was enough enough, or should either of the other 2 officials tossed in another "T"?

NFHS Rules require the Disqualified Player to remain on the Bench so as to be under the supervision of her HC. The only way she could have gone to her team's lockerroom is if an adult from her school escorted her to the lockerroom and remained there with her.

The officiating crew should have smacked up side of their collective heads for telling her HC that she had to go to the lockeroom.

MTD, Sr.

First, I thought an ejected player does not have to leave the gym - they can stay on the bench. No? Second, if I saw the kid do that on her way out, I would T her again and give the coach an indirect.

Unless your state has different rules for an ejected player, the ejected player is supposed to remain on the bench. If it is necessary to send any player (ejected or not) off the court, then a school representative should be sent with that player as well.

Since the player was ejected/disqualified and the coach notified, that player is now considered bench personal. In this case, any flipping of the bird, bad behavior, etc. that would earn a T would be assessed to her and also be an indirect against the Head Coach. The Head Coach has now lost his/her coaching box.

To clarify, she would not stop chirping on the bench and yes, an adult met up with her after she crossed the floor. Not sure who the adult was.

Her actions leaving the court should lead to a school suspension.

At the high school level, players (non-adults) are disqualified to the bench (not ejected), unless removal from the gym is absolutely necessary. And then, with adult supervision. Adults can be ejected and have to leave the gym...

10-5-5 Note
...Ejected adult bench personnel shall leave the vicinity (out of sight and sound) of the playing area immediately and are prohibited from any further contact (direct or indirect) with the team during the remainder of the game. Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.

If that is the case, then the officials were 100% correct to have her removed from the bench with proper supervision.

There is a passage in the NFHS rules book about this as well as stating that a player disqualified for a flagrant foul may be removed from the gym at the discretion of the officials. People seem to forget about these provisions.

The final action of that team member would have earned a flagrant technical foul if I had been on the court.

Damn. I'm glad you made her leave, but there's no way you can make sure she has an escort the whole way. As for the actions once she was DQ'd, I'd keep whacking her and hope I didn't get to three indirects by the time she left the floor. I hope you have a lengthy talk with your state association, let us know the result if you do.

You are correct but from the OP it appears that the HC was letting her leave without adult supervision. The game officials should have never let that happen in the first place.

MTD, Sr.

Had a similar situation. V1 was tossed for fighting, coach sends him to the locker room (we did not), and he flips off the home crowd on his way out.
We called another T.

My understanding is there's a difference between disqualified and ejected. Disqualified players (typically those that foul out) remain on the bench. Ejected players go to the locker room.

Two technical fouls, or one flagrant foul, warrant a disqualification. We had a flagrant personal foul (elbow to the head) in a game last week. That player was disqualified, and remained on the bench.

That's not to say you still can't eject a disqualified player, but as already stated here, there has to be adult supervision.

By rule, Players and Substitutes are Disqualified. Head Coaches are Disqualified and Ejected. All other Bench Personnel are Ejected.

MTD, Sr.

Do I Got This Right?
 

Interesting things I didn't know before.
First, the book does not speak of "ejection" of a player, only, as in Casebook 10.5, of a disqualified player required to leave the vicinity of the court in the extreme situation noted above. Therefore, a player can be "disqualified", and forced to leave the vicinity of the court, but not, as the term is frequently used, "ejected."
Second, the terms "disqualified" and "ejected" seem to be used synonymously for the head coach, when merited. A disqualified coach or adult bench personnel seem to be ejected, forced to leave the vicinity of the court, and an ejected coach is one who has been disqualified -- 10-4, 10-5 (last NOTE in each).

Here's the only reference in either Rulebook or Casebook dealing with the player having to leave the vicinity of the court:
10.5: ...A disqualified team member or student bench personnel shall go to or remain on the bench. However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor.
It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it. (10-5 Note)

Is this right?

Correct. NFHS players are generally minors. Can't let them go off on their own because of liability and accountability factors. NCAA rules are different because the players are adults.

Absolutely. But not our place as officials to recommend that on the disqualification/ejection report. We state the facts. The school and state association determine any suspensions.

I was making the comment in reference to the fact that she was a student, on school grounds, during a sanctioned school event.

CoachP mentioned an adult meeting her at the end of her antics. It was probably the principal or one of his/her vices.

What bothers me about the OP was that H5 was allowed by the Game Officials to walk unescorted by an adult from the Bench across the Court to where an adult was waiting.

When H5 was Disqualified for the 2nd TF with is a Flagrant TF by definition, someone from the officiating crew should have been escorting her to the Bench and that officials while informing her HC that she had been Disqualified for a FTF, that official should have informed her HC that H5 was to remain on the Bench because she was to remain under adult supervision. Usually that triggers the following response from the HC: "I don't want her on the Bench. Can I send her to our lockerroom." To which the official should have replied: "Yes, Coach, but she must remain under adult supervision at all times. From the Bench to the lockerroom and at all times while she is in the lockerroom."

The instant I would have seen H5 leaving the Bench area I would have been escorting her back to the Bench and asked her HC where H5 was going.

MTD, Sr.

Maybe I am alone in this, I would have no problem T'ing her up again for that little display. For one if we did not ask her to leave, she is bench personnel. The coach would learn at that point and might take further action. I am not going to be used for your frustration. Again the more action I take, the harder it is to blame me when all of this is in a report.

Peace

IMHO, this is an easy additional T (putting aside the questions of whether she should have been walking across the court alone in the first place -- one possibility is the Rs let it slide because they realized they shouldn't have let that happen in the first place -- but that is wild speculation on my part).

I agree. And I don't want to limit myself here, but from the sounds of the OP, I think I'd just give one additional. Maybe 2. But I would like to get the point across without significantly impacting the game and other players on the team. I don't have books handy, but I seem to remember a provision about forfeiting the game if a player/coach is making a mockery of the system (i.e., intentionally getting, 3,4,5 T's called after disqualification). Can someone confirm/deny our authority in that area?

I would not forfeit the game. To me that would be if there was some noncompliance of the participants like the coaches or administration. That does not seem to be the case here.

I would just want the message to be shown so that the team hurt for the actions of the kid and take more responsibility for her actions. Maybe next time they will not allow them to go across the court in that situation.

Peace

East T
 

Would earn a quick T from me when she was still chirping from the bench and would also quickly advise coach of the indirect. If he is unable/unwilling to get her under control then he would soon be able to escort her himself.

In the OP, when the player walks between the two refs and flips the bird (regardless of whether or not she should've been sent off) would you as an official hit a whistle and signal T at that time? Or wait until the little show was over and figure it out? I only ask because it seems to me that a kid like this clearly doesn't care anymore, and blowing the whistle and calling her for another might only escalate the matter. Thoughts?

Escalate which matter? The matter had already been escalated by the kid, whose coach is still responsible for her behavior. Keep in mind this is high school and if we don't penalize this behavior by a kid when it happens, we are not doing our job. The school can deal with the fallout afterward, but if the head coach can't control this kid, then the team has to pay the price for her actions and reactions. Forfeiting the game is extreme in this case - that wouldn't happen, but another T is absolutely going to happen.

I'm not saying I wouldn't call another T, in fact I'm saying I would. I'm asking if you should make the same signal you would at any other time? It seems it might be wiser to observe the actions until things are under control, then inform the table of the Tech or possibly how many techs.

I guess I'm thinking about it this way: If you're one of the officials 4 feet away from her and blow the whistle right next to her and make your signal, good chance that enrages her further, and next she yells some obscenity at you for calling that. Then you call another. Then she responds. Then another.... You didn't do anything wrong here, but could this have been avoided by simply getting away from the player and reporting all T's after the incident?

After the first one (after she's already been ejected), I'd be moving toward the coach quickly and will likely give him a chance to go take care of the situation and get the kid out of the gym. If something like that happened, I'd be inclined to let the coach handle the situation and wait till she's gone and then resume play with all the free throws. I'm not likely to keep piling on T's with every stupid thing she does as long as someone is trying to get her the hell out of the gym.

This. A third T is definitely warranted but anything beyond that will simply be documented in a report to the state.

If a player is DQ'd I don't care if the coach sends her off with or without supervision. I couldn't find anywhere in the rules where it was our responsibility to police the coach in whether or not he sent his kid off.

Can someone post the citation please?

Someone already did. See post #14

I think we're on the same page here, I just wanted to be sure you wouldn't sit there and signal T after T in her face with each thing she did, that's the unnecessary escalation that I was referring to.

Thanks, I noticed that, but that's only when we need to instruct to remove a player from the court. My comment was aimed more towards the coach choosing to remove a player from the court. I should have been more clear.

That's saying that if the official directs the student-team member to leave, they must leave with an adult. It says nothing about an adult being required to leave with the student if the coach tells him/her to "get off my bench."

I'd guess that most schools have rules about leaving a student-athlete unsupervised in such a situation, but is it actually in the playing rules?

Read Posts 2, 13, 14, and 17. Players/Substitutes are to remain under adult supervision at all times. If a Game Official sees a Disqualified Player leaving the Bench unescorted by an adult, it is the responsibility of the Game Official to see that the Disqualified Player is supervised by an adult at least within the visual confines of the Court.

MTD, Sr.

For me this is where the rubber meets the road. Once said player leaves the court I could care less where they go or who is with them. You can't manage this situation any further. Hopefully a major a$$ chewing is waiting for them wherever that may be.

As much fun as that would be I doubt I'm ever gonna get my Tech-tacular! achievement. That's 5 techs in a row within 4 seconds of each other for you Halo fans.

That's where I disagree in this discussion.

And you can disagree all you want. BUT, by Rule, as long as that Disqualified Player is within the Visual Confines of the Court, he/she had better be under the supervision of an adult. Thereby making it your responsibility to ensure he/sher is supervised by an adult.

MTD, Sr.

As long as he's on the court, he is under direct supervision. If I can see him, the coach can see him.

It's not my job to make sure an adult is parked in the kids shorts. Like others have said if we can see them they are supervised.

Updated, player has been removed from the team and will be disciplined as a student also.

That is awesome.

Kind of surprised the school went that far, but I think that's exactly what they should have done!

Does anyone "T him/her in the face"? For any Technical, I'm moving a few steps away from the player, then sounding the whistle and indicating Technical Foul, and then proceeding to leave the area and report. And if I'm concerned about a fight, I will get the players separated first before calling a technical. After calling the technical and ensuring no escallation, I'm leaving the area and my partner(s) can assess whether or not a second T is warrented.

If the player is being led off and does something that I feel deserves a 3rd T, I'm taking a step away from the player and pausing for a second before sounding my whistle and signaling a technical. If it's bad enough to deserve a 3rd T, everyone in the gym will know what it is for anyway.