Short Tights Or Compression Shorts ...
 

Here's what it actually states: "Tights that extend below the knee are now legal."

The statement doesn't define tights, it just specifies that something that was once illegal, is now legal.

Put on a pair of tights that extend from your waist to your ankles. If they're black, white, beige, or the predominate color of the uniform jersey, than they're legal. Now start cutting them (no frayed edges, in fact, might as well put a hem on them to make then completely legal) back. First they're mid calf length. Shorter? Now they're knee length. Shorter? Now they're above the knee length. Everything is still legal. When did they change from tights to compression shorts and therefore have to be the same color as the uniform shorts? If you answer, "above the knee", then I would like a citation for that, and an explanation of how one item of clothing can miraculously change into a completely different item of clothing.

And what if they're not all then way up to the waist? What if they're sleeves that extend from below the crotch (above the bottom of the uniform shorts) to just above the knee? Are these compression shorts that have to be the same color as the uniform shorts, or are these sleeves that can be black, white, beige, or the predominate color of the uniform jersey?

Note that I'm not completely satisfied with my explanation (above), but neither am I satisfied with your definition based on the statement in the "Comments On The Rules Changes". In my opinion, the NFHS "screwed the pooch" with some new, ambiguous, rules regarding tights, and compression shorts, rules that need some clarification next year.

For now, regarding compression type shorts, my local interpreter has told us to accept black, white, beige, or predominate color of the uniform jersey, and call them tights; and to also accept color of the uniform shorts, and call them compression shorts; so that A1 would be allowed to play with black above the knee tights, or sleeves, under red uniform shorts; and teammate A2 would be allowed to play with red compression shorts under red uniform shorts. According to him, the rules are too ambiguous to ask either of these players to change their equipment.

When do tights become shorts? When they are cut down so that they are short! That can easily be defined by the length being above the knee.

Your interpreter's decision to permit teammates to wear different colored items on their legs is nonsensical and goes against the basic principle that the NFHS has been pushing for the past few years--items worn by teammates need to match in color.

Ambiguous ???
 

Then how do you explain this: What if they're not all then way up to the waist? What if they're sleeves that extend from below the crotch (above the bottom of the uniform shorts) to just above the knee? Are these compression shorts that have to be the same color as the uniform shorts, or are these sleeves that can be black, white, beige, or the predominate color of the uniform jersey? Thus, two teammates can have very different, but legal looks.

So, whether they're cinched at the waist, or not, makes a big difference? Even if you can't see whether, or not, they are cinched.

Let's face it, the NFHS really didn't do a great job thinking through these Fashion Police changes, with, what I believe to be, a few unintended consequences. That's all I'm trying to say. It's not as clear as black, or white (or beige).

An official needs to be able to tell the difference between a sleeve and shorts. It's that simple.

So, you're having the player drop his shorts to see if they are just tall sleeves or shorts/tights?

Call me a coward, but I'm not looking under the kilts.

Commando ...
 

Exactly my point. Thanks. Why did the NFHS force us into wondering about, or asking awkward questions (especially to girls) about, what the player is wearing under the shorts, when a few choice words in the new rule would have simplified the fashion rule, which I believe was one intention (fewer legal colors) of the change?

I don't think this is that difficult. It says "Tights that extend below the knee are now legal."

So if he garment worn extends below the knee, then it would be tights and subject to the restrictions for arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights (black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and same for teamates)

If the garment worn doesn't extend below the knee, then it is not legal as tights (call it whatever you want). But the garment worn could be legal as compression shorts if it is the predominant color of the uniform and does not extend below the pants.

Thigh Sleeve ???
 

The statement, "Tights that extend below the knee are now legal", doesn't define tights, it just specifies that something that was once illegal, is now legal.

So a thigh sleeve (not shorts) isn't a sleeve? I thought that anything worn on the leg (except a brace with hinges, straps) is a sleeve?

All I'm saying is that the new fashion rules need some work.

After reading this thread, the first thing I want to do after breakfast is to go on NetFlix and watch Mel Brook's Men in Tights, :p.

MTD, Sr.

Did this really morph into it's own thread?

And He Said Please ...
 

Because just another ref asked politely.

It really does not matter what you call them. If you are wearing something from the waist that is under you shorts/skit that extends below the knee, then they cannot be worn or cannot be shown.

If it is something they can take off without removing their shorts or pants, then they can wear them, but they must follow the color restrictions.

BTW, this was clarified by our head person the other day as I was having a similar disagreement with a fellow official.

Peace

Who is going to ask the player to prove they can be removed with removing their shorts :eek:

First of all you can look at the items and tell what they are or what they are not. Secondly you can ask a kid what they are. Often times they do not know the rule so they tell you what they are.

Finally I do not work girls basketball, so asking a player about an illegal item or having them remove them does not bother me. And I never ask any player to "prove it to me" what they have on. They tell you what they have on and describe the item to you or show you on their own.

Peace

Robin Hood: Men in Tights (Mel Brooks, 1993) ...
 

What? Your "head person" is sadly mistaken. This was a major rule change this year. How could he miss it? Was he out of the country, or in the hospital in a coma? I certainly hope that you set him straight. Is the college rule different, and, if so, could he have confused the college rule with the high school rule?

2014-15 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

3-5-3
Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.
d. Meet the logo requirements in 3-6.
Note: In general, a brace is defined as anything that contains hinges and/or straps or an opening over the knee cap.
Rationale: To clarify the rule and give better guidance to what is acceptable.

The committee expanded Rule 3-5-3 by identifying anything worn on the arm and/or leg as a sleeve, except a knee brace. These items, including tights, will now be permitted but must meet the color and logo restrictions in Rule 3-5-3. Previously, this rule permitted only arm sleeves and leg-compression sleeves.

Tights (noun, plural): A snug stretchable garment covering the body from the waist down, designed for general wear by women and girls.

Tights (noun, plural): A piece of clothing that is worn especially by girls, women, and dancers, that fits closely over the feet, legs, and waist, and that is made of a thicker material than pantyhose.

If JRutledge's "head person" confused this issue, then it's pretty obvious to me (what I've been saying all along) that the new fashion rules need some work.

X-Ray Vision ???
 

You can? How can you determine the difference between calf sleeves, and compression shorts, by just looking at the player? One (compression shorts) is cinched at the waist, and the other (calf sleeves) isn't cinched at the waist. How do you determine the difference by just looking?