Officials clear FT lane incorrectly
 

Boys Varsity...3 Whistle crew...

Last second FG attempt by A1. (Team A was down by 2) A1 was fouled, then buzzer sounded. (Shot did not go in)

U2 had definite knowledge that there was .6 seconds left in game.

U2 was at table instructing clock operator to put .6 seconds on clock.

During this time, the R (thinking there was no time left) had told the players to "Clear the Lane" for A1's FT attempts.

A1 made his first FT, with no players on the lane.

U2 blew whistle and informed the R that there was indeed .6 seconds left in game.

NOTE: We all know that the Officials should have slowed down and got together BEFORE the FT action...but, they did not.

Sooooo, how are you going to administer this without one of the Teams protesting that a rule was miss-applied? (This game went into 3 OTs)

Shoot the 2nd free throw with 0.6 on the clock, and players along the lane line. There is no correctable error to address in this situation.

Let me try without the book handy...

Rebounding is not an issue with the first of multiple FTs so all we have is a violation on B for not having someone in the lowest lane space. Since the FT attempt was successful I am counting it. Get the time back on the clock, get the shooter back on the line with the lane spaces occupied and shoot the second.

I think I could sell this to the coaches as the violation on the first ignored since it was successful and we are picking up with play as required.

But that's just me...I have been known to be wrong before.

Well I am not sure I would give a violation to a team that I told to not be on the lane. I think that is on "us" as officials.

This is why you slow down so you do not have to contemplate the consequences of the screw up.

Peace

Second free throw was good and with the lane full. Team B inbounds and does not score. (tie game)
So team B is upset that free throw no. 1 with out the lane filled let team A gain an advantage,right? My experience has been that a cleared lane and all eyes on the shooter tends to make them more nervous anyway. Since Team A won the final over-time,Team B Coach is grabing for straws.

see BadNews response. that is how you handle it. the free throw was merited. it isn't a violation because the R told them to clear the lane. officials error.

We made a mistake coach, sorry.

You can't re-shoot the first FT attempt, as there is no rule allowing you to do so (meaning it's not a correctable error). So you fix things and shoot the second like normal and move on.

And how can you call a violation on a team when it's your fault they violated in the first place?

I feel the same way in this situation, and I wouldn't call a violation on Team B either...

but...

Let's say you administer a throw-in while one team has 6 players on the court. Are you going to not call a T because of an "officiating mistake"?

I'd still call the tech, but the two situations are not the same.

In the first case an official told the players to clear the lane, thus creating the violation on Team B.

In your case, the official(s) didn't create the tech situation, they merely didn't do anything to avoid it.

Note: Even though it's not our responsibility, I still count players and would avoid the "too many players" tech.

Let us play "Devil's advocate"...and "what if" this scenario....

What if A1 MISSED the first FT?

Team A Coach: "Hey, Team B VIOLATED by not being in the lower blocks! The rules say they should be there...I want another FT!"

R: "We screwed up."

Coach: "Give me a rule reference...or I protest....and don't give me that 2-3 BS"

Our state will recongnize a protest if a rule is miss-applied.

NFHS doesn't recognize protests in basketball (5-4-2).

If he wants a rules reference, I'd probably have to go to the "points not covered in the rules" clause.

Either way, expect the sh_tstorm to ensue, and call your assigner as soon as you possibly can.

Easy, we don't accept protests here. :p

I'd tell him to go ahead and protest.

I am lining it up for second shot with players. Since he made the FT there is no harm done.

Anytime an official is "leaving the game" which means going to the table to resolve a scoring/timing issue, he needs to get to the nearest partner to let him know - especially during free throw administration. There is a reason all but one correctable error involves Free Throw Shooting.

R: "Coach, by telling Team B they had to clear the lane for the free throw, we caused them to violate. Therefore we can't call a violation on them. Furthermore, it's not a correctable error."

There are many instances where officials make mistakes, and the game is picked up where you left off. Think of inadvertent whistles.

"Protest noted." (thought: now sit down and shut up)

And, if it's not ROP (and this wasn't so indicated), it's a T if B is not in the lower spaces after being directed, not a violation.

See 10.1.5C

I'm not entertaining that conversation. "Free throw is over, there are no retroactive violations. Take up any further conversation with the VHSL".

You are worried way too much about hypothetical responses from the coach.

Wouldn't be a sh!tstorm. The game wasn't affected

"There is no violation. The R would not let them in the bottom spaces. That was his error. It is not a correctable error. 2-10. we are going to shoot the remaining free throws with players on the lane." the end...

Hmmmm, interesting response from a guy who is on a basketball forum talking basketball scenarios....

Thanks for the feedback.

I disagree with you completely. Hypothetical (or actual) situations that cause us to discuss the rules is what this forum is for.

Make the call or decision that needs to be made.

Seems too often (to me, imho) that your part of the conversation revolves too heavily around worrying about possible reactions from coaches. You shouldn't give a flip about any of that. And when coaches react, you should be able to support whatever ruling you've made. Being overly concerned with a possible sh!tstorm or a coach going ballistic shouldn't even enter your mind when making your officiating decisions.

Make your decisions ... without regard to potential coach reactions.

I think what he's trying to say is that we can go on and on and on about what a coach could possibly say, so perhaps we should stick to something a little more likely.

As Bob noted, we wouldn't even go to a (delayed) violation...not having Team B members in the first two spots (and not coming from a TO) would result in a T after directing the head coach to provide two members.

And since the administering official never directed the coach to provide two members to line up, there's no T to be had.

Well Mr. Steer (Actually I don't believe you are really a steer...anymore than I am a RookieDude):p

...but names can be deceiving.

The original post was asked of me when I was doing a pregame the other night. I have to admit, after 25 years of officiating, I couldn't come up with a rule reference to help the guys that posed the question.

Upon looking in the Case Book, I did find "OFFICIALS PROVIDE ERRONEOUS INFORMATION" 8.6.1

This does not cover the OP...but, IMO, it gives a philosophy of how we would handle this certain situation. "{Play should continue. 2-3}"

I was simply creating a discussion to find out if any other Official could give me a similar or even the same RULE REFERENCE that I found.

jtheUMP actually did say "points not covered in the rules".

JRUT...thanks for your honest response..."not sure" (I'm with you)

If any of you other big dogs (Adam, Nevada, Rich, rockyroad, etc.) have an actual rule or case reference...please let me know so I can pass it on to our association. Otherwise, I'm going with "Play On" 2-3. Missed or Made FT.

...I miss Jurassic....sigh.

i would tell your association it is not one of the listed correctable errors. 2-10. a-e. the free throw shot was merited. just didnt have the players in the lane. the similar case plays are the ones where free throws are shot in the wrong order...and the one where a player has gotten a 5th foul. while he is being replaced the other official allows player to shoot free throw.
both of these mention that the free throw was merited and the error is not a correctable error...it is an officials error.

No one seems to have noticed that the crew actually misapplied TWO rules.
According to 5-10-1 the REFEREE may correct an obvious timing mistake, so the U2 should have informed the R of the time that he observed and let the R go to the table to make the correction instead of going to the table himself. This would have prevented the FT problem as communication amongst the officials about the timing issue would have occurred prior to the FT administration.

I agree with this and these are the same rule references that I would use.
Others situation that I could conjure would be the officials awarding a throw-in to the wrong team or awarding a throw-in at the wrong spot. For example, an intentional personal foul occurs in the FT lane in the backcourt and following the FTs the crew administers the throw-in at the division line.
All of these are incorrect and mistakes by the officials, but none of them are correctable errors.

Yep, pretty simple.

Let him protest, it's stupid. When the shot was taken, there was no time on the clock. The timing error was fixed afterwards (timing errors can be fixed at any point before the game is over), so move on.

If the state recognizes that protest, quit.

Dan,

As for the OP...as others have said, there is no CE here. Miscommunication between partners is a mistake, but there is nothing to "fix". There really is no Case Play that I am aware of that would clearly cover this situation.

As for your twist on the OP...I don't believe the WIAA or the WOA would entertain a protest on this since - once again - it was a communication issue. To say that a rule was set aside or misapplied would be a huge stretch and I just don't see Mr. C and Mr. S buying that one.

It's an officiating forum, not a coach's forum. Why should a coach's response change anything? maybe it's my 31 years being associated with the military, sometimes somebody needs to take charge and not be concerned with the feedback.

This thread has clearly exceeded its initial purpose.

And?

Lively discussion is the purpose of every thread.

To expound on this.

1) There is no correctable error because a merited free throw was shot by the correct shooter.

2) There is no violation by the defense because the officials directed them to clear the paint.

3) There is no specific rule or case play that covers this exact situation.

Therefore, this is where the crew has to come up with a common sense, best for the game solution. Whether or not the coaches agree, argue, threaten to protest, or tell you they don't want to hear about rule 2-3 shouldn't change how the play is adjudicated.

Make a decision and be prepared to tell the coaches this is the final answer and there will be no ongoing debate.

Ehhhhhh...unfortunately, Washington does allow a coach to file a protest if a rule has been misapplied or set aside. As I said before, I don't think a protest of this situation would go very far here, but there would probably be one. So there would, again unfortunately, be some ongoing debate.

In the majority of the protests I am aware of, the WIAA has backed the officials. The few I know of that were overturned were pretty easy things that got kicked badly...and it seems most were in football, not basketball.

So note the protest and go on. There still hasn't been a misapplied/set aside rule here. An official's mistake, yes, but not a misapplied rule.

The "debate" I'm referring to is the back-and-forth with the coach at the time of our (crew) ruling. We can't let a coach's reaction be a determinant in our ruling. After the fact crew chief would have to provide a report, after which the chips will have to fall where they may.

Seems to me that if they had actually wiped out the FT and made the kid re-shoot, then THAT would have opened up an actual misapplied rule that could result in an accepted protest.

Yep.

Makes for some interesting situations every now and then.