Cleveland Cavaliers refuses to respect the National Anthem
 

Dion Waiters informs NEOMG that he is a Muslim and plans to skip national anthems | cleveland.com

In the NBA Rules Book I found:
In the Comments On The Rules section:

H. PLAYER/TEAM CONDUCT AND DRESS
(1) Each player when introduced, prior to the game, must be uniformly dressed.
(2) Players, coaches and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along
the sidelines or on the foul line during the playing of the National Anthem.

Is this an actual rule? What is the penalty? Would it be a Technical Foul? I do not see a remedy for violating this.

Ok, I just found Rule 12
 

RULE NO. 12—FOULS AND PENALTIES

A. Technical Foul

Section V—Conduct
a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time. A technical
foul(s) may be assessed to any player on the court or anyone seated on the bench for conduct
which, in the opinion of an official, is detrimental to the game. The technical foul must
be charged to an individual. A technical foul cannot be assessed for physical contact when
the ball is alive.

So, clearly an official in the NBA could blow the whistle on this goof. Opinions anyone?

I hope the hell not. And I would not even want to call anything for this. I am not paying attention to every player during introductions that seriously.

Peace

Ok, it looks like the guy was either misuderstood
 

Or, he changed his mind.
Cleveland Cavaliers guard Dion Waiters clarifies remarks regarding his pregame ritual | cleveland.com

I still would like to know what your opinions are on what an NBA official should do if a guy were to do this.

I think I'd leave it up to the league to impose a fine or something. But I'm not an NBA official, so maybe they think differently.

The officials wouldn't do anything as far as in game penalties...if there is any punishment to be had, it would be imposed by the league.

I tend to think they wouldn't but, they certainly could do so.

If some creep decides to call attention to himself by refusing to stand, I think he is requesting a Technical Foul.

It's a great country. You're entitled to that opinion.

1st Amendment protections are one of things that make this country great.

Just like Waiters has the right to not stand for the National Anthem. I don't like it, but there it is. Although, the NBA has the right to punish its employees (like the players) for not abiding by their rules. Just like any other company.

Hmm

Makes me think of one of my favorite speeches from a movie...

I am not advocating his arrest. He has the "right" to not stand. He does not have the First Amendment protection to intentionally and publicly embarrass his employer without consequences. The NBA and the Cavaliers also have rights.

In addition, The First Amendment does not protect him against breaking the rules of the NBA.

he could tell a referee he thinks he is stupid. Is it illegal? No. Will there be consequences? Of course.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, First Amendment protections are limited in private employment settings. Main protection is against government taking action against you for what you say. However, Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act protects "sincerely held" religous beliefs.

Don't know enough about his claim but pretty sure NBA wouldn't want referees making the decision if his belief was sincere or not...thx

Maybe, I'm naive or stupid, but what does the National Anthem have to do with being Muslim? What does it have to do with any religion?

Don't be a plumber.

Freedom of speech makes it easy to spot the idiots.

But it's not applicable here, IMO, because we're not talking about government intervention.

It sounds fishy to me. I think it was an excuse he used for being late or something else. According to him, he's backing off it, and the media made it up and it had nothing to do with his religion.

That's my point. In some places there would be intervention.

Some religions consider a national anthem as an oath. Some religions believe oaths / anthems should be reserved only for their God.

(Don't shoot the messenger)

A few years ago, the Mennonite college near me considered doing away with the National Anthem at their home events for exactly this reason. They still play it, but I hear it was a hot topic on campus for a while.

Occasionally, I'll look around during the anthem at this school and see a few people that don't stand up. Nobody seems to care.

I think it is a silly thing to constantly do at every contest. I get it if we are doing a special event or something to honor troops, but every game to me does not need this display. Not everyone is from this country at games. Not everyone feels the same way. And if we cannot honor the other things surround the country properly like the flag on the field, when to stand at attention when the flag is being walked by an area or other things that show people in this country that claim to be so offended, never do or practice. And I am saying this knowing damn well my father is buried in a Veteran Cemetery for his service in Korea and he always honored the flag as a Veteran when I grew up. I even attended a Military Academy for a year and I learned a lot of things we are supposed to do, we do not even do. I agree, a lot of people do not care.

Peace

Nothing. The story is misreported. Even the reporter has admitted as much.

Interesting. Media messing up on crucial facts of a situation? How can that happen. :)

Peace

Silly? There are 168 hours each week. Four minutes is silly? This veteran, son of a three-time wounded WWII veteran, who passed away one month ago today, is of a differing opinion.
I have, several times, accepted the opportunity to sing the National Anthem at basketball games, and have exulted in the feelings that great song evokes in most of the attendees.
And yes, my father and I both gladly served to preserve and protect every person's right/privelege to differ in their opinions of such matters.

Then why don't people do all the other things that honor the flag or follow protocol? If you do not know those things, then yes it is silly.

There is nothing special about the National Anthem for a sporting contest. We only started this practice in the last 50 years or so. And it was not done at every sporting event until probably the last 30 years.

Again, it is after all my opinion. ;)

Peace

Four minutes would be a funeral dirge.

Any anthem sung played in more than 80 seconds (or sung in more than 90) is horrible.

I'm in agreement that playing/singing the anthem before EVERY game at almost every level of athletic competition is kind of overplayed. It almost lessens the significance of it. It's just something else to get done, like the starting lineups.

Don't get me started on "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of baseball games. The song sucks and has no place in sporting events. Did we even sing it during games before 9/11?

Just The Facts, Ma'am ...
 

I'm glad that it's only an opinion because I would hate to think that one could confuse it with some facts.

This "practice" started about seventy years ago, not fifty years ago.

From Wikepedia:

In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson ordered that "The Star-Spangled Banner" be played at military and other appropriate occasions. The playing of the song two years later during the seventh-inning stretch of the 1918 World Series, and thereafter during each game of the series is often cited as the first instance that the anthem was played at a baseball game, though evidence shows that the "Star-Spangled Banner" was performed as early as 1897 at opening day ceremonies in Philadelphia and then more regularly at the Polo Grounds in New York City beginning in 1898. In any case, the tradition of performing the national anthem before every baseball game began in World War II.

I graduated from high school forty-three years ago (not thirty years ago) and The Star Spangled Banner was played before every single basketball game, both home, and away.

Of course, I'm sure that things were considerably different in Chicagoland back then.

The Eleventh Hour, Of The Eleventh Day, Of The Eleventh Month ...
 

Happy Veteran's Day. Thank you for serving.

I did not grow up in Chicagoland. So if you want to talk about facts, at least get that one right. I have stated that several times and also not the only place I work sports. We have a bigger state than where you live. ;)

Secondly the practice started at that time, but it was not customary until relatively recently. There were not the NA in every sport before every game. There were even places that never did this until in the last 40 years or so.

And I really hope you are doing more than looking this up on Wikepedia as your only source. I graduated from HS in the early 1990s, it was not done every game and many times it was not done at all.

Peace

"Hey Music Lovers" (Sly & The Family Stone) ...
 

I guess that we have more music lovers here in my little state than in your big state.

http://briancain.com/blog/the-histor...ing-games.html

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/tb/hist...nal_anthem.jsp

Rich, most of the HS teams in my area play 2 games a week, for each of 3 levels - sophomore, JV, and Varsity. The Nat'l Anthem is usually played or sung only at the Varsity games. Sometimes, when no one is available to sing the Anthem, the crowd recites the Pledge of Allegiance.
When I sing it, it takes about 70 seconds. So, 2 Men's Varsity games, 2 Women's Varsity games, is about 4 minutes. (You may note my reference to 168 hours in a week - 167 hours, and 56 minutes to discount the value of our freedom, our liberty, our society, as won and protected by our military.)
Oh, and I hope you have a peaceful Veterans' Day.

You'd have to ask those people . . .

Although you may see nothing special about the Nat'l Anthem for a sporting event, it is special, in and of itself. Having spent time in other countries, where the citizens have so few rights, and even less hope, the Nat'l Anthem is very special to me.
Perhaps those US citizens who discount the flag, in regards to scripted protocol have not been instructed. Perhaps they take all that we have in this great country for granted. Perhaps a few minutes of reverence for the flag, and our Nat'l Anthem would do them some good, in regards to their gratitude for this great country and all it affords us.
I hope you have had a peaceful Veterans' Day.

Thanks, Billy. I hope you've had a peaceful Veterans' Day.

My family and I thank you and all veterans for our freedom. We also thank your families. I'm certain you don't hear it enough.

P.s. I love the national Anthem...and God Bless America ...even in the 7th inning of the 7th game....

You can be upset with me about my point of view, but many people feel the same way by how they act during the National Anthem. It really only took on this special meaning after 9/11. There were many people that acted like it was a hassle based on their body language and it was not always practiced. I even remember early in my career where it was hit and miss who would even do the Anthem. There are better ways to show gratitude IMO than doing the Anthem. My dad was the Commander of a local VFW, I saw first hand real giving to those that did things for this country. And most that get so upset if you even take a position on a certain side of this, never do anything truly that will help veterans that shows real gratitude.

BTW, I had a great day. Thank you for asking. ;)

Peace

You miss the entire point.

Peace

Thanks, BigCat. And thanks to all our country's veterans and their families.

Opinion Versus Facts ...
 

I fully "get" your opinion. It's your facts that I have a problem with. If you had simply expressed an opinion, then I would have probably not decided to participate in this thread.

Thirteen Years ???
 

I may agree with you if you were discussing God Bless America (seventh inning stretch), but The Star Spangled Banner has had a special meaning for a lot longer than thirteen years.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...9&pid=15.1&P=0

Also, for the record, I've been officiating for thirty-four years here in Connecticut, and The Star Spangled Banner has been played before 95% of the varsity games that I have officiated, or observed, over that period of time. That's a fact. I also understand that things may have been different where you grew up.