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-   -   Stack on throw-in (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98616-stack-throw.html)

Jay R Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:30pm

Stack on throw-in
 
I'm assuming everyone knows what I mean when the offensive team stacks their players on a throw-in. Can the defensive team insist on getting between players? I'd like to know for NFHS rules or NCAA rules in case there is a difference. Also for the few of you who work or know FIBA rules, is there a provision allowing the defensive team to get between the offensive players?

The reason I'm asking is that I can't find anything in FIBA rules that would stop the offense from doing this. I'm thinking perhaps it comes from our American neighbours (or neighbors).

BryanV21 Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay R (Post 943288)
Can the defensive team insist on getting between players?

NFHS - No. Unless you mean the stack is adjacent/parallel with, and within 3 feet of, the line.

I don't know if college is different

bob jenkins Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:47pm

It's common myth that the defense is allowed in between.

Pantherdreams Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:48pm

I don't know that there is a written rule. But the application here is that we allow teams to give space if defense wants it.

There may not be rules support but on dead balls before the at the disposal of the inbounder while we deal with the table, coaches, subs etc. We certainly don't want defense actively tagging/defending or engaging players on the floor. Which is what they would have to do to ostensibly force the other team into setting moving screens in order to get their stack set up. To avoid this if the defense tries to get in the stack we just tell the stack to give room. To avoid unsportsmanlike dead ball fouls we just tell them to give room.

APG Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 943290)
It's common myth that the defense is allowed in between.

Probably comes from people applying the NBA rule to lower levels. In the NBA, the defender would be allowed to get in between

BigCat Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 943289)
NFHS - No. Unless you mean the stack is adjacent/parallel with, and within 3 feet of, the line.

I don't know if college is different


End of Rule 7 for nfhs and ncaa. By "stack" I assume you are talking about a line perpendicular to end line or sideline.
Defense is not allowed in. As Bryan said, in high school if players line up parallel/ side by side to the end line within 3 feet of it they have to be let in. ncaa says within 6 feet and parallel they have to be let in. Ncaa actually has provision saying teammates can be adjacent if perpendicular.

Camron Rust Mon Nov 10, 2014 06:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 943291)
I don't know that there is a written rule. But the application here is that we allow teams to give space if defense wants it.

There may not be rules support but on dead balls before the at the disposal of the inbounder while we deal with the table, coaches, subs etc. We certainly don't want defense actively tagging/defending or engaging players on the floor. Which is what they would have to do to ostensibly force the other team into setting moving screens in order to get their stack set up. To avoid this if the defense tries to get in the stack we just tell the stack to give room. To avoid unsportsmanlike dead ball fouls we just tell them to give room.

And the myth gets reinforced. :(

BillyMac Mon Nov 10, 2014 06:47pm

There Already Is A Written Rule ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 943291)
I don't know that there is a written rule.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6230/6...473e048e_m.jpg

Let's go to the videotape:

THROW-IN ADMINISTRATION 7-6-5: Teammates shall not occupy adjacent positions which are parallel
to and within 3 feet of the boundary line if an opponent desires one of the positions.

7.6.5 SITUATION: Prior to a throw-in on the end line near A’s basket, A1, A2
and A3 line up shoulder-to-shoulder parallel to the line and: (a) within 3 feet of it;
or (b) more than 3 feet from it. In both cases, Team B requests space between
the Team A players. RULING: In (a), the request is granted and a Team B player
may position between each of the Team A players. In (b), the request is denied.

Not to be confused with:

JUMP-BALL ADMINISTRATION 6-3-3: Teammates may not occupy adjacent positions around the center
restraining circle if an opponent indicates a desire for one of these positions before the referee is ready to toss the ball.

grunewar Mon Nov 10, 2014 08:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 943290)
It's common myth that the defense is allowed in between.

You were just baiting Billy, right Bob? :p

Adam Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 943316)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6230/6...473e048e_m.jpg

Let's go to the videotape:

THROW-IN ADMINISTRATION 7-6-5: Teammates shall not occupy adjacent positions which are parallel
to and within 3 feet of the boundary line if an opponent desires one of the positions.

7.6.5 SITUATION: Prior to a throw-in on the end line near A’s basket, A1, A2
and A3 line up shoulder-to-shoulder parallel to the line and: (a) within 3 feet of it;
or (b) more than 3 feet from it. In both cases, Team B requests space between
the Team A players. RULING: In (a), the request is granted and a Team B player
may position between each of the Team A players. In (b), the request is denied.

Not to be confused with:

JUMP-BALL ADMINISTRATION 6-3-3: Teammates may not occupy adjacent positions around the center
restraining circle if an opponent indicates a desire for one of these positions before the referee is ready to toss the ball.

Billy, he wasn't talking about parallel positions, so there is no rule (which means what he's doing isn't supported by rule).

BillyMac Tue Nov 11, 2014 07:10am

Confucius Says ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 943331)
Billy, he wasn't talking about parallel positions, so there is no rule (which means what he's doing isn't supported by rule).

If it's not illegal, then it's legal.

billyu2 Tue Nov 11, 2014 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 943339)
If it's not illegal, then it's legal.

Or, from a slightly different viewpoint: There is no rule that prohibits the throw-in team from positioning its players as close together as they want either in a stack perpendicular to the boundary or adjacent parallel to the boundary with the exception that you gave from the rule book and casebook.

Welpe Tue Nov 11, 2014 09:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 943291)
We certainly don't want defense actively tagging/defending or engaging players on the floor.

There are already rules to deal with this. Call the first foul before the offense "has" to set an illegal screen.

There is one positive aspect to the way things run around here. We can't go making crap up. If we do and the coach calls us on it, our butts are going to be in the sling.

MD Longhorn Tue Nov 11, 2014 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 943339)
If it's not illegal, then it's legal.

You realize that parallel and perpendicular are opposites, right?

BillyMac Tue Nov 11, 2014 05:20pm

Just How Often Do We See Alexander Pope Quoted Here On The Forum ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 943342)
You realize that parallel and perpendicular are opposites, right?

I was merely citing the "real" rule that some non-officials often confuse with the "mythological" rule, while also citing a situation where alternate team players are the rule, i.e., the jump ball circle.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing." (Alexander Pope, 1709)


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