Dirbbling FIBA rule interpretation
 

In the official rule book I came across this

During a dribble the ball may be thrown into the air provided the ball touches the
floor or another player before the player who threw it touches it again with his hand.
There is no limit to the number of steps a player may take when the ball is not in
contact with his hand

Does this mean, A1 can throw the ball forward, take several steps, before the ball bounces and after the ball bounces touch/catch it? Isn't this a violation?

if after they toss the ball and hits the floor and or a player, they can either continue dribbling or catch the ball without violating. Now if they catch the ball then dribble, this would be a double dribble.

Legal play....there are no rules on the direction the ball has to go on a dribble even though the traditional dribble has the the ball always going down.

The NFHS rule's wording is slightly different and I think it is also what the FIBA rule you cite is intending to say.

Since your rule says, "during a dribble", that means there is some element that can occur even after the dribble has started. In the case of the NFHS, with its slightly different wording, it is also legal for a player to bat (but not throw) the ball UP (into the air) with their hand underneath as long as they let it hit the floor or another player before touching it again.

There is no limit on steps per dribble so regardless of height or direction of the release of the ball to begin dribble the player is considered to be dribbling. Number of steps between touches is not an issue until they gather the ball again.

Why would you think this is a violation?

You can't pass the ball to yourself. Everybody knows that. :D

And they called it in Hoosiers!

Well, because I have never seen anyone do it in the NBA/international basketball

Consider this:

1. Team A initiates a fast break and A1 receives the ball just before the half court line. There is one transition defender B1 ahead of A1
2. Why doesn't A1 just throw the ball forward towards the basket, beat B1 with pace, catch it after one bounce and finish the lay up? I mean this is considerably easier to do than dribble all the way and use skill to beat the defender, isn't it?

As noted by SNIPERBBB AND Cameron, above, that initial throw of the ball constitutes the start of a dribble. If A1 then catches the ball, it is the end of that dribble, and pivot foot limitations/travelling limitations come into consideration.
If A1 continues the dribble, without catching the ball, such action is legal. If, after catching the ball, A1 starts a new dribble, the dribble limitations - double dribble rules - are in consideration by the covering official.

I get the rule, but I have never seen it in a real game

So as per the rule, what people do in the dunk contest- throw it up, run, catch it after a bounce and dunk it; is a LEGAL play. Right?

I have seen it, just not at the distance you suggest, however. I've seen players toss it ahead 10-15 feet on more then one occasion and continue the dribble from there....just not all the way to the basket. The precision needed to get it to the basket area and catch up to it in time to finish a shot would probably be too difficult in the heat of a game.

Well, as I stated, once the player catches the ball, then the limitations on starting another dribble/
foot movement/pivot foot/travelling come into consideration.

Dunk contests have no such rules -- travelling is not a consideration in a dunk contest, and it is quite often observed that the dunker travels in his approach, but nobody cares, in that enviroment . . .

Anybody Got A Problem With This ...
 

In a high school game?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RF3VcagfoZg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nope. Explicitly legal by a case play somewhere.

New to the forum. I have enjoyed reading it from time to time. Thought I'd join to throw two cents worth in...thx for having me.

I don't think this play is in the case books. A try for field goal is defined as an attempt by a player to score 2 or 3 points by throwing ball in his own basket....player is trying for goal if he has the ball and "in officials judgment" he is throwing or attempting to throw for goal.

In the video the player ends his dribble, throws the ball off the backboard and catches it without it touching another player.

If you, the referee, believe this was a try then when he catches it off the backboard it is a legal rebound. However, if you determine that it is not an attempt to score but simply a pass to himself then the player violates when he touches the ball before anyone else off the board. I don't believe there is any rule or play providing that any ball thrown by the offense against its backboard is always a try.

If there is a case book play please let me know. I would say that I wouldnt call the violation unless it was really, really obvious to all that it was a pass and not a try. I think the video shows a violation.

I wouldn't have processed this quick enough had it happened to me in a game. Having seen the play and the question I hope I will remember it in the future. Again, if I'm wrong and there's a case book play please let me know. Thx

NFHS: Casebook play 9.5

NCAA Men's: A.R. 105

NBA:

9. Player A1 passes the ball and it hits his backboard. May Player A1 be the first to touch the ball?

Yes. A player may be the first to touch his own pass if the ball touches his basket ring, backboard or another player.
RULE 10 - SECTION XIII - g

Thx for the info. The nfhs casebook play cited says this is legal because a player's own backboard is part of his teams equipment...and can be used...thx again.

Own Backboard ...
 

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

Question: In (a), can said player legally start a dribble?

as you can probably tell from my earlier post, i don't think the rules definitions as written support the conclusion reached in play A. But since the exact play is in the case book, even without much support in a particular rule, i would allow the player to dribble after the catch. If you let him catch it under these rules, then there's no reason not to let him dribble…based on this play, the NFHS if asked would say he could dribble…This is the best i have on the question. I don't have any other rule cite…


It would be nice if rule 4 said any ball thrown by a player against his own backboard is a try or maybe better, say a player may throw the ball off his backboard after ending a dribble, be first to catch or touch it and may then dribble shoot or pass. that would make this clear but as someone else said in a different thread, the rules just don't cover every scenario. if they did the book would be a lot thicker.

i obviously missed/forgot about the case book play earlier so maybe i am missing rule support for play A. let me know if i did. thx

Only Three Choices ...
 

NFHS 9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player

Have any of these three things happened?

No, and I do understand that under the rules as written he should not be able to dribble. What I am saying or trying to say is that under the rules as written I don't think he should even be able to catch his pass off of the backboard. He has already dribbled, he throws a pass off board, takes a few steps and catches the ball without it touching anyone else. Under the rule definitions I see that as a violation...

But the case book says he can catch it. i'm asking if there is rule support for the catch off of the board. Something more than the casebook play. There could be I'm just not seeing it.

If the NFHS is going to let him catch the ball when the rules, in my opinion say he shouldn't be able to, then I guess it is my frustration saying let him dribble it also.

Anyway, I'm looking for something other than the case book play, something in rules, which allows him to catch the ball off the board after dribbling etc. thx for your reply.

Other than a slam dunk contest, your going to rule a pass against the his/her backboard as a try.

Equipment ???
 

Agree in theory, but how about a NFHS rule citation?

You're not going to find it. Sometimes, the NFHS alters the rules by using case plays. In this case, it's a one-off, and changing the rules would likely affect plays they don't want included, so they just use a case play. I wouldn't use the logic they give for this play on any other play.

Sometimes, they try fixing inadvertent changes with case plays and interpretations. When they change a rule for one purpose, and realize later that it affected other things they didn't want affected (see above), rather than try to find another way to change the rule without affecting the other plays, they simply leave the rule changed and issue a case play that "fixes" the problem.

Only it doesn't.

I also agree. Once "deemed" a try your covered by rule to let him catch dribble etc. I may deem every thrown ball that hits backboard a try. Even when they are obviously a pass...I understand the practical way to deal with it.

The play we are talking about though says it is a pass. The play is not deeming it a try. It's says it is ok because it is part of teams equipment...I don't see where that comes from in the actual rules is all I'm saying.
Thx for replying.

I agree completely. Thx

Off My Headband, All Net ...
 

So ... if I'm a dribbler, and I end my dribble, I could the bounce the ball off my headband (equipment), allow the ball to fall to the floor, and legally pick the ball up. Can I now legally start a new dribble?

Ask Mary

IF you end your dribble, then pass the ball off your headband and it bounces away I'm going to call a violation when you pick it up. As I said earlier I don't know where it comes from or why they declared it was ok to catch a pass off the board after ending the dribble. It's not in the rule book and doesn't make sense to say "equipment." I will allow the catch off the backboard because the exact play is in the casebook. Your headband play isn't...yet.

P.s. Doesn't say much for your teammates that you have to pass it off your head rather than to them😊

Fisting Illegal, Heading Legal ???
 

Me, to the player, "That's using your head".

Stupid NFHS Casebook Play ...
 

Then will you allow said player to start a new dribble?

If it is an obvious pass off of the board, really obvious that it is a pass, I wouldn't let him dribble. RULES to me say he shouldn't be able to catch it as we discussed…case book play says he can. rules as we know and you have pointed out don't allow player to dribble again. case book play doesn't say he can do that. having said all that...

if i can call the throw off the board a try I'm going to do that. then when he catches and dribbles there is rule support for it...

This seems to me the right approach.

He'd practically have to yell "I'm passing" before I'd consider it a pass, though.

Does the case really say that though? It says that it can be used but it doesn't specify that a new dribble can begin.

the case play says a pass can be caught off of the back board because it is the players own "equipment." you are right that is all it says. i don't think the rules really support that conclusion but the case book play says he can catch it. the rules also would not let him dribble again.

but, if i say the throw off of the back board was a "try" and not a pass then he can catch it and then dribble it again etc. it becomes a rebound…

if i can call it a try that is what i would do….