3 Seconds / Preventive or Coaching?

[Larks]

Ok..so lets talk Three...

A5 standing in the paint....you do a little preventative officiating and get him / her out right?

I've gotten into the good or bad habit of suggesting the player move by saying things like..."keep moving" or "get out" etc. If they dont seem to take the hint, then I call it.

I was recently told that this terminology could be construed as "coaching" thus resulting in an advantage being given the offense.

The suggested phrase given to me was "get legal" or "get legit" or even to call out a number..something like "15 where are you"?

Seems like 6 of one / half a dozen of another to me.

So...Old guys....well, fine...anyone....whats your approach to the 3 in the paint?

Larks - VIT

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Larks
Ok..so lets talk Three...

A5 standing in the paint....you do a little preventative officiating and get him / her out right?

I've gotten into the good or bad habit of suggesting the player move by saying things like..."keep moving" or "get out" etc. If they dont seem to take the hint, then I call it.

I was recently told that this terminology could be construed as "coaching" thus resulting in an advantage being given the offense.

The suggested phrase given to me was "get legal" or "get legit" or even to call out a number..something like "15 where are you"?

Seems like 6 of one / half a dozen of another to me.

So...Old guys....well, fine...anyone....whats your approach to the 3 in the paint?

Larks - VIT

I say, "Out of the key". Never been accused of coaching. I do it for both teams. I even get a thanks now and then from a player.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've never been accused of coaching with that comment... and might laugh at anyone that suggested that this was coaching. (The same person might consider calling a foul as coaching - in the respect of my saying, "Don't do that.")

The three second call is a real disrupter of the game. It is usually made against some post player that has fallen asleep and really is not planning any impact upon the impending play... until you call the violation. Big impact.

My comment of "Clear the key." is usually directed at the sleeping post player. I might call a half dozen violations per year... and then, it's gotta be more than 3 seconds for the sleeping giant. But, I say "Clear the key" all the time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Larks
A5 standing in the paint....you do a little preventative officiating and get him / her out right?
I've gotten into the good or bad habit of suggesting the player move by saying things like..."keep moving" or "get out" etc. If they dont seem to take the hint, then I call it.
The suggested phrase given to me was "get legal" or "get legit" or even to call out a number..something like "15 where are you"?
Seems like 6 of one / half a dozen of another to me.
So...Old guys....well, fine...anyone....whats your approach to the 3 in the paint?

My approach is the same as your's,Larksy. If "keep moving" is coaching,then why isn't "get legal" also coaching? Answer- they're the same,and neither is coaching.

However,if the person telling you to do it his way is an assignor or evaluator in your area, then it's "Yassuh,Boss".

[Kelvin green]

If a coach pisses and moans about you coaching the kids the next time call a solid 3 second call right at three seconds- the coach might get the message---

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
If a coach pisses and moans about you coaching the kids the next time call a solid 3 second call right at three seconds- the coach might get the message---

Coaches that have a clue will not complain either way. If they do complain, they do not understand the game, nor do they understand our job. This is no different than telling a kid what he can and cannot do on a throw-in spot. I do not think anyone considers that coaching.

Peace

[mick]

If I see it, I call it.
I rarely "see" it; and I never talk about it, cuz it ain't that important.

I don't coach anything except to rarely say something like,
"Clean it up in the post", "Hands", "I'm watchin'"

mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Larks
Ok..so lets talk Three...

A5 standing in the paint....you do a little preventative officiating and get him / her out right?

I've gotten into the good or bad habit of suggesting the player move by saying things like..."keep moving" or "get out" etc. If they dont seem to take the hint, then I call it.

I was recently told that this terminology could be construed as "coaching" thus resulting in an advantage being given the offense.

The suggested phrase given to me was "get legal" or "get legit" or even to call out a number..something like "15 where are you"?

Seems like 6 of one / half a dozen of another to me.

So...Old guys....well, fine...anyone....whats your approach to the 3 in the paint?

Larks - VIT

Keep moving works. I prefer to NOT coach...errr...help (?) a player by name or number.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Keep moving works. I prefer to NOT coach...errr...help (?) a player by name or number.

This is a very good point.

I remind myself not to point any player out specifically when, for example, a player is being too rough in the key and now we're at foul shots. It's a great time to say, "Let's clean up the play a bit under the hoop," or similar. Usually the guy knows it's him. And others are reminded that we like to see a nice game flow as well.

Mike

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
If a coach pisses and moans about you coaching the kids the next time call a solid 3 second call right at three seconds- the coach might get the message---

Kelvin, it's more likely that you'll hear it from the opposing coach in the first half.

[Larks]

[/B][/QUOTE]
However,if the person telling you to do it his way is an assignor or evaluator in your area, then it's "Yassuh,Boss". [/B][/QUOTE]


You got it JR...it was one of my assignors.

Sir...Yes Sir...."Get Legal" it is.

[Dutch]

Personally, I believe that as a basketball referee, you're out there to serve the players to ensure they all get the best game possible.

Now, everyone here seems to agree that saying something like "get out of the key" or "watch your time" or something else to that effect benefits the game by permitting greater flow and so forth.

Now, to me, referring to specific players (either by name - if you happen to know who the are or number) is a great tool for preventative officiating and seems to me to be a logical extention of telling people to get their *** outta the key. Lets say, you're in two man and you've got a particularly physical game. You're in trail, helping out in the key and you spot something untwart happening in the wing but can't divert your attention from the play. A simple "clean it up Steve" or something like that appears to me to be a great way to get them to stop whatever they're doing so you can get on with what you need to be concentrating on.

It's become part of my preventative officiating toolset and works a treat, especially if you happen to fortunate enough to be a well respected official in the league.

[Mark Dexter]

I'm very weary about making these 'suggestions' by number. If you warn gold 15, then call a foul on white 3, white's coach is going to be pissed as to why his player didn't get a warning. If, however, you say to clean up post play, that is an equal warning to both teams. (Never mind the fact that white #3 should have enough brains to pick up on the warning as well).

As for names - I wouldn't use them during the course of play, especially when in the post when the other players can hear you. Unless you know everyone's name (and use them), it seems like you're playing favorites or have a personal connection with the player - neither of which is a good perception for people to have of you.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dutch
... You're in trail, helping out in the key and you spot something untwart happening in the wing but can't divert your attention from the play. ....

Dutch,
Welcome to the forum.

Help me here, please. How do I recognized something that is not twart, twarted or twartless?

mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I'm very weary about making these 'suggestions' by number. If you warn gold 15, then call a foul on white 3, white's coach is going to be pissed as to why his player didn't get a warning. If, however, you say to clean up post play, that is an equal warning to both teams. (Never mind the fact that white #3 should have enough brains to pick up on the warning as well).

As for names - I wouldn't use them during the course of play, especially when in the post when the other players can hear you. Unless you know everyone's name (and use them), it seems like you're playing favorites or have a personal connection with the player - neither of which is a good perception for people to have of you.

What BoSoxBoy said!

Keep it generic. You might warn Gold 15 in the first quarter for something. You may wanna warn him again in the fourth quarter also-depending on circumstances. If you're using numbers or names,fer sure you're gonna hear from the opposing coach- "How many damn warnings are you gonna give him?You're killing us out here!". Not much you can say in reply,is there?