Free Throw At Wrong Basket
 

I'm re-reading the rule and case books, and thought of a scenario that I can't figure out. Previous case books may have covered it, but I don't have them readily available.

Here it is...

A1 is awarded two free throws after a shooting foul, after the first attempt a time-out is called. Once the time out is over the officials administer the 2nd free throw for A1 at the wrong goal (I don't understand how such a mistake could happen, but stay with me). A1 misses the free throw, which is rebounded by A2 who then shoots and scores. Before B1 in bounds the ball, it is discovered that A1's free throw attempt was at the wrong basket, thus a correctable error.

Now what? Rule 2.10.4 states that the free throw and the activity during it (except for unsporting, flagrant, intentional, and technical fouls) shall be cancelled. However, when the basket was made by A2 the free throw had ended, so this section doesn't apply.

Rule 2.10.5 states that points scored, consumed time, and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of the error, shall not be nullified. Therefore the basket by A2 counts.

So it seems that A1 would be given a replacement free throw at the correct basket with the lanes clear. After the attempt, Team B is given a throw in on the endline (and is able to run the line since at the point of interruption they were able to do so after a made basket by Team A), per point of interruption.

But what happens with the basket scored by Team A? Does Team A get the points, as they were led to believe it was the correct basket due to official error? Does Team B get the points since it was actually their basket?

I'm lost, and afraid it may be obvious. If so, please be gentle.

I think this would be correct. If not, I think I could "sell it" because the vast majority of coaches would not know better.

A1 is given a replacement free throw
B is awarded the 2 points for the basket made by A at the wrong end
B gets a throw-in and is able to run the baseline (after the replacement FT)

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...well, you know the rest.

It seems like a case when fairness is thrown out the window.

I mean, it's not "fair" that Team B is given the points since Team A was led to believe they were at the correct basket by the officials. But it's not "fair" that Team A is given those points and gets a free throw attempt (possible three point play).

If the last action is a field goal for B, why does B get the ball?

Good point. So is this the answer?...

1. A1 is given a replacement free throw at the correct basket with the lane clear. If made Team A is given a point and we go to point of interruption, if the free throw is missed we simply go to point of interruption.

2. Team A is given a throw in on the endline (under Team B's basket), and allowed to run the line since if follows a successful field goal.

Note: Although the basket was scored by A2, it was made at Team B's basket, therefore Team B is given two points and the basket is not awarded to any one player (a notation is made in the scorebook).

No way can this basket count for B when everybody on the court, apparently including the officials, thought it was being shot at the correct basket. This would fall under the part (somebody help me with rule #) where the officials allow the teams to go the wrong way.

Stuff Happens ...
 

Very little about the correctable error rule is fair. It's just something that the NFHS jerry–rigged together to get the game back on the right track after an error.

Actually, the CER is not a NFHS jerry-rigged rule but one that pre-dates the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees. The CER has been the same in both NFHS and NCAA (except for some simultaneous tweaking by both Rules Committees in either the late 1980's or early 1990's) since before the 1962-63 school year which means it goes back to the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada) which is the precursor of the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees.

MTD, Sr.

The rule is 4-5-4. Some might argue the context of the rule pertains to the start of the game, the 2nd half or any overtime period. See related Caseplays 5.2.1 E and F.

And I would argue that this is the example given because this is the most likely time for this to occur. The officials allowed the teams to go the wrong way in the OP. I see no reason why this rule would not apply.

Assuming the clock properly started when A2 grabbed the rebound and the ball was at B1's disposal following the basket, the error for the FT at the wrong basket is no longer correctable.

I'm with jar on this one.

I can agree with that. However, a good case could be made that A's second free throw at the wrong basket is not a correctable error situation. For example: A5 dunks during pre-game warmups. By mistake the officials allow Team B two free throws at the wrong basket to start the game. Both FT's are good. Team B is given the ball at the division line. They inbound and proceed toward the wrong basket. A couple of tries by both teams are missed before Team B scores. During the dead ball after the score the officials realize their mistake. According to 4-5-4 "all points scored count as if each team had gone the proper direction." Apply that ruling to A1's missed free throw and subsequent score by A2 in the OP and I guess all the officials can do is stop the game and get things going in the proper direction. Yes?

You have learned well young grasshopper.

MTD, Sr.

Yes

Young???

Are you younger than almost 63?

MTD, Sr.

Obviously, young is a relative term, but when does "young" end for you? I think I'm closer to 63 (I'm 55) than I am to young.

Mark, I wouldn't mind going back a few years to almost 63. Instead, I converted to Celsius. I am now 18.3. Feeling great again! Well, almost.

When the ball is at B1's disposal, wouldn't that be the first dead ball after the clock has properly started? Therefore, the error can be corrected as long as it's caught before B1 inbounds the ball. Right?

Rule 6-1-2, my friend...

The ball becomes live when:
a. On a jump ball, the tossed ball leaves the official's hand(s).
b. On a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower.
c. On a free throw, it is at the disposal of the free thrower.

...with a little 4-4-7 throw in...

A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
a. Handed to a thrower or free thrower.
b. Caught by a player after it is bounced to him/her.
c. Placed on the floor at the spot.
d. Available to a player after a goal and the official begins the throw-in count.

So my post is moot without changing it to say the error was recognized by the officials as soon as the ball went threw the basket on A2's shot, and before the ball was at the disposal of one of Team B's members for a throw in.

Nuts.

Oh, and thanks.

That means I am 17.2, and I am just about to start my second semester of my senior year of high school. :D

The funning thing is as an engineer I have long promoted the conversion in the U.S. from the English system to the Metric system to no avail.

MTD, Sr.

Trying to sort through ...
Assuming the error is correctable (recognized before as you describe here) then is the consensus that:

1) Score the goal for A2 (officials permitted players to go in wrong direction, so this is not a "wrong goal" shot).
2) A1 shoots replacement free throw at the correct basket with lanes cleared
3) Resume at POI which is an end line throw-in for B following the scored goal by A2.

Assuming the error is not correctable (as in original post):
1) Score the goal for A2 (officials permitted players to go in wrong direction, so this is not a "wrong goal" shot).
2) Resume play going in the correct direction with end line throw-in for B following the scored goal by A2.

I don't think you can have both of those.

Either:

(a) the officials allowed everyone to go the wrong way -- the FT is missed, A2's basket counts for A, line everyone up and go the right way with a throw in for B, or

(b) the FT was at the wrong end -- A re-shoots at the right end, A2's basket counts for B, A gets a throw-in.

Methuselah ???
 

That's 291.45 Kelvin.

You just made me old again. :p

MTD, Sr.

I agree, the two options are at variance and cannot be "co applied" , so please select either a or b?

This is an apparent discrepancy that deserved a full solution. And if I don't hit on it here, someone please forward a more correct attempt to set the record straight once and for all.

My idea: Add the word "legitimately" between "points" and "scored" in 22-10-5. In other words, erroneously scored points, like when wrong FT shooter makes a FT or a FT is shot into the wrong basket, those points are indeed nullified. However, if, during the allowable time frame between a correctable error and the discovery of it, if a basket was legitimately scored, that score would not be nullified.

Would that resolve the conundrum that exists in the OP?

I don't think that helps. The points by A2 (the rebounder) were indeed "legitimately scored" -- but depending on which path you take, they were either scored for A or for B.

I am done with the Celsius to Kelvin discussion and will now address the original play.

First, the OP stated that A1 was awarded two FTs, but the OP only talks about one FT being shot and that it was missed. Therefore, based upon the information in the OP I am going to making an educated assumption A1's first FT was successful, therefore the A1's missed FT that A2 rebounded and attempted a successful two-point FG was is second FT attempt.

Therefore, I my ruling would be as such:

1) Boy what an idiot I am for Resuming Play after the Team TO by having the teams play in the wrong direction.

2) The CE Time Limit had not expired.

3) The FG by A2 counts.

4) A1 attempted his FTs at the wrong basket; this is a CE.

5) The point for A1's first FT does not count because of the CE.

6) A1 will attempt two FTs at the correct basket with the FT Lane Spaces unoccupied.

7) Team B will receive the ball for a Throw-in anywhere along the End Line in Team A's Frontcourt (Team B's Backcourt) after A1 has finished attempting his two FTs.

MTD, Sr.

Interesting thought. What one do you go with?

Of all the CEs, this is the dumbest, IMO, as it doesn't really affect anything. This scenario is a hole in the rules, IMO, so I'm nto sure how I'd rule. I'd just hope I could look back and see one team or the other with the ball ready for a throw in after that FT before we killed the play.

I agree with you there. Not sure why you need a CE for a free throw at the wrong basket.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Just allow whatever happened before the error was found and continue at the correct basket. Why re-do the attempts? I guess it's in case one side is more advantageous to shoot at (fans and other distractions at one end?), therefore making them shoot at one or the other evens things out. But is it just that, in which case it seems silly?

North By Northwest ... ...
 

Wind? Sun in eyes?

Hey, don't laugh. We play summer ball outdoors in my neck of the woods. Wind and sun are factors in some games.

Playground Basketball ...
 

Broken street light?

Back, a million years ago, when I was playing playground basketball, I would hate shooting at a rim without a net. If it wasn't a simple layup, I would pass instead of shoot. No jump shots, not even little ten footers. I was completely psyched out without that net.

I don't know. I'm just reaching here, trying to figure out why it's a CE, and not just a play-on from the time the error is found.

The fact that you know this is sooooooo scary or you are too old.

To quote MTD, Jr. (aka known as MTDv2.0 in the Forums) and Andy (his younger brother) their "old man" has always been a "bald old geezer"! :p

The 2014-15 will be my 44th season officiating boys'/girls' H.S. basketball and I officiated women's college basketball from 1974 to 2008.

MTD, Sr.

Older Than Dirt ???
 

Six-on-six basketball?

Billy:

No! That is still played by a small number of high schools in Iowa. Women's college basketball was playing five-man (five-person, LOL) basketball for years when I started officiating.

But my mother played H.S. basketball in Kansas in the late 1930's and they played six-on-six back then. She was a guard and only stayed in her team's defensive end of the court.

MTD, Sr.