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-   -   New college ref advice (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98319-new-college-ref-advice.html)

Rooster Thu Aug 21, 2014 05:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy (Post 939199)
This may or may not be true in your neighborhood, but I found one of the biggest transitions in going from HS to College was interacting with the coaches.

In my experience, college coaches will try much harder to "work" you for a call.
They will also tend to test you more to see what you will take when they realize that you are a new official to the conference or league.

Just be sure to take care of business and good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_ref (Post 939221)
There is more at stake at the college level...in HS, the coach is also probably employed in some other capacity by the school and so wins and losses won't dictate future employment. In college, coaches are paid to win and so their livelihood is on the line.
For the reasons stated above I had one guy in my new conference tell me that if a coach calls you a MFer you can START to think about whacking him. I'm pretty good with my people skills but I don't tolerate much BS. Sooo that being stated I'm a little concerned about how much to take from coaches, not wanting to be that guy. Clearly officials in this league don't hand out many, but I'll be doggoned if I'm gonna be a doormat either. For the group: Is there a new balance to be calibrated? Any sharing of the experience with moving back and forth between HS and JUCO in terms of handling coaches sure would be appreciated.

Sharpshooternes Thu Aug 21, 2014 06:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 939198)
Sharp,
Congrats! You and I are almost mirror images. I too got picked up this summer in a small JUCO conference. I only have one more year of experience than you. (I did my first season as a varsity official last year.) I am also very confident of high school rules (with big thanks to everyone on this forum) but not so much on the NCAA. I signed up for the NCAA Women's Basketball Central Hub on Arbiter even though I'm not working NCAA. My welcome package includes the rules book, case plays, and the CCA Manual. I haven't received them yet but I'm told it'll be soon. Plus there are great vids on the site. My strategy for the rules deficit: I'm gonna study my butt off, call the obvious, and do the best I can to wrap my head around the LDB en vivo. There's also a chart that shows the major differences between the two in the back of the Fed and NCAA rule books. But probably foremost in my mind: As someone who's very wise on this site reminded me, "There's a reason you got picked up."
Congrats to you too rooster. I think I will sign up for the central hub. Sounds like I will be working on the women's side this year so I will start my focus there. Good luck this year

Sharpshooternes Thu Aug 21, 2014 07:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 939219)
To join in the chorus, congratulations! To go to the questions, in order:

*You shouldn't have any issues with your HS schedule. I say shouldn't because the vast majority of HS assignors understand officials - especially younger officials - want to move up. There are some who flat out don't want you to turn back one of their games for an NJCAA/NCAA game and/or want you to consider them as #1 in your hierarchy. I know of one or two in my area who feel this way. I opted not to try to join their HS staffs. Ask your HS assignor(s) about their policy.
Chatted with the college assigner yesterday and he says he will have his entire schedule assigned within the next 3 weeks so it shouldn't interfere with HS assignments at all. And fortunately for me, he is good friends with my association president and they have already chatted about me, so I would hope/think that that would only help my HS schedule.

Sharpshooternes Thu Aug 21, 2014 07:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy (Post 939199)
This may or may not be true in your neighborhood, but I found one of the biggest transitions in going from HS to College was interacting with the coaches.

In my experience, college coaches will try much harder to "work" you for a call.
They will also tend to test you more to see what you will take when they realize that you are a new official to the conference or league.

Just be sure to take care of business and good luck.
They are picking the wrong new guy to try that with. I tossed a coach during my try out for this college conference a few weeks ago. I am not afraid to take ace of business. I feel like the college environment is much more accepting of techs than HS. College=tool to take care of business. HS=very very last resort

Sharpshooternes Thu Aug 21, 2014 07:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 939240)
I don't want to rain on the parade here, but does anyone call to mind the caution about advancing too quickly? I do wish our friend the best on his sudden advancement, I really do. But to go from 2-man sublevel high school straight to 3-man college??? I've never heard of that, at least not around here. I've seen plenty of guys, however, trying to make the jump from that starting point to the HS 3-man ranks and not recover from the inadequacies that all to soon became readily apparent. I do wish Sharpy the best, but I can't in my own mind picture the upside to this.
And I'm an optimist. I really am.
Hope it works out.
Thank you for your comment. I have heard stories about this very thing happening and I definitely don't want to be on the failing side of this coin. I think I will be successful because of the amount of time I put into study, tape review, lectures (court club), etc. it won't be perfect but I am pretty sure it won't be a disaster.

johnny d Thu Aug 21, 2014 08:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 939246)
Sounds like I will be working on the women's side this year so I will start my focus there.
In a lot of places, once you get slotted into one side or the other (men vs. women), that is the side you stay on. Many college assignors and most college coaches don't like to see people working both sides. If you don't want to stay in girls basketball, you need to consider starting there carefully.

Sharpshooternes Fri Aug 22, 2014 02:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 939251)
In a lot of places, once you get slotted into one side or the other (men vs. women), that is the side you stay on. Many college assignors and most college coaches don't like to see people working both sides. If you don't want to stay in girls basketball, you need to consider starting there carefully.
Yeah, i understand that. Can't say I had much of a choice presently, but I hope to make the switch later.

JetMetFan Fri Aug 22, 2014 02:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 939243)
For the reasons stated above I had one guy in my new conference tell me that if a coach calls you a MFer you can START to think about whacking him. I'm pretty good with my people skills but I don't tolerate much BS. Sooo that being stated I'm a little concerned about how much to take from coaches, not wanting to be that guy. Clearly officials in this league don't hand out many, but I'll be doggoned if I'm gonna be a doormat either. For the group: Is there a new balance to be calibrated? Any sharing of the experience with moving back and forth between HS and JUCO in terms of handling coaches sure would be appreciated.
There shouldn't be any new balance to calibrate. The one common thread among college coaches, be they JUCO or otherwise, is they work for and represent the school. College administrators generally don't like their representatives acting up in public so if a HC calls you a "M-F" and you ring him/her up you're just doing your job. I don't know of any college coordinator who wouldn't back you in that situation.

In HS, there's always a chance the HC doesn't work for the school so he/she may not care or may not be as easily affected by the school's administration.

BillyMac Fri Aug 22, 2014 06:19am
The Buck Stops ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 939257)
In HS, there's always a chance the HC doesn't work for the school so he/she may not care or may not be as easily affected by the school's administration.
While it's true that the coach may not be a teacher, he's still under the authority of the athletic director, the principal, the superintendent, and the board of education.

johnny d Fri Aug 22, 2014 06:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 939259)
While it's true that the coach may not be a teacher, he's still under the authority of the athletic director, the principal, the superintendent, and the board of education.

Yes, but if he doesn't work for the school, losing his coaching job isn't that big of a deal, it isn't how he makes his living.

johnny d Fri Aug 22, 2014 07:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 939256)
Yeah, i understand that. Can't say I had much of a choice presently, but I hope to make the switch later.

You did have a choice. You could have told the assignor that you appreciate the offer, but you are going to continue working on your game until he can offer you a position on the men's staff. If working men's basketball is your goal, there isn't really much upside to starting on the women's side, other than learning to manage a shot clock. The difference between men and women on the college level is bigger than the difference between boys and girls at the hs level.

Since you are committed to do it, I will echo what others have already said. You need to be prepared and mentally focused to officiate the type of game you are working each night. On the drive to the game, go through a mental checklist of the rules and mechanics that you will have to utilize that night. The table at the back of the books is a good starting point for this type of preparation.

Good luck.

Raymond Fri Aug 22, 2014 09:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 939256)
Yeah, i understand that. Can't say I had much of a choice presently, but I hope to make the switch later.
I have a good friend whose first college hire was in D2 Women's. He now works D1/2/3 Men's.

The D2 assignor who first hired him oversaw both Men's and Women's in that conference, so I think it made the ability to crossover easier.

Toren Fri Aug 22, 2014 02:34pm
Congratulations on your hire.

Here is the little bit I would say; as others have said go onto arbiter and get yourself hooked up on to the NCAA site. The rules are even more important on a collegiate level then the high school level. I know we get suspended for misapplication of rules and that equates to money out of my pocket. And repeated misapplication of rules means termination.

Secondly, trust that your partners can work their primary areas and stay disciplined within your own primary. Especially in the women's game, the referee's are outstanding at knowing their PCA. With that said, have opinion on plays, such as RA plays that are multiple referee plays.

BillyMac Fri Aug 22, 2014 04:06pm
Bread Line ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 939260)
Yes, but if he doesn't work for the school, losing his coaching job isn't that big of a deal, it isn't how he makes his living.
Keep in mind that my comments only referred to high school basketball, not college (I was replying to JetMetFan's high school post) .

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 939257)
In HS, there's always a chance the HC doesn't work for the school so he/she may not care or may not be as easily affected by the school's administration.
Although I'm sure that it's possible, I've never heard of a high school teacher/coach in Connecticut losing is teaching job as well as his coaching job because of some on court improprieties with officials.

AremRed Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:13am
I'm not a college ref, but the thing I have learned this year is to know your role. Know what plays you can see and what you can't. Know when to say something to a coach and when to let your R take care of it. Know when to speak and when to keep your mouth shut. Know when to make a necessary call out of your area, know when to trust your partners. I'm still figuring out the basics, but I hope that helps.


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