Transitioning 3-man to 2-man crew.
 

I not sure if any of you refs have encountered this issue or probably have but for me this particular issue I found noteworthy. During the season I do 3-man crew, with summer club basketball I'm assigned to 2-man crews. There's a lot more court to cover---whew! lots more running around compared to 3 man crew. Also, a LOT more walking around to report fouls--often I or partner has to come wayyy over from otherside of court to report foul and in rotation I come wayyyy over to the baseline to replace the ref who went tableside. Reffing these summer club basketball = more walking+more work - less money:(
I guess the what makes this situation entirely ironic (and amusing to me) is that when I first started in the hoops Ref business I got started with the YMCA youth leagues and it was always 2-man crews and this required continual hustling, running, and rotating but I never really got winded. I guess now I' have become "fat and pampered" by doing 3-man such that the tasks of doing 2-man has become tiring. But hey. . . this club league pays me a game check prior to even me reffing the first game of a 4-game set---so I can only complain to my fellow Ref colleagues:rolleyes:
Anyone else experiencing the same with summer hoop youth leagues?

I cannot speak for you, but summer ball is just summer ball. I do not compare the two and the actions I do during the summer. Yes, there is more walking, but that is because the environment is more laid back and not as "serious." Heck they are not paying us more and we are often not working the same amount time in each games and multiple games in a situation. I do not even try to compare a regular season situation to a summer, off-season situation because of the nature of how these games are taken. Heck we might not even get other rules that are strict, so why make our mechanics the same feeling?

Peace

I also look at in season scholastic games and recreation/summer league games as two different things.

In season games we go to the site 45 minutes - 1 hr before game time, change into uniform at the school, and generally work only one game per night (my association does sometimes assign two game sets (e.g. Freshman and Varsity (so the varsity official can evaluate the JV game officials, or a non-varsity official might work the JV game and then work as the Clock operator for Varsity).

For recreation, we are expected to show up in uniform, 15 minutes before gametime and generally work either 2 or 3 game sets.

No point in comparing the two different types in my opinion. I use the recreation games to focus on specific things that I want to improve on, but it it also common to not make all the switches and "save steps" when reporting fouls in the interest of keeping the game moving. There is often only 1 hr or 1 hr and 15 minutes to finish the game before the next game is starting so if it were run like an in-season game then we would get off schedule pretty quick.

Here are some tips I have picked up for summer ball to conserve energy and not move as much. Take them as you will.

Report from a distance so you don't have to switch
Walk up the floor as Trail whenever possible
Jog from T to new Lead, but start walking once you hit the FTLE
As Lead bring all endline throw-ins that go out between the extended lane lines to your side
Sit down during timeouts when possible
Speed up putting the ball in play when possible
Don't chase the ball, have the players do it
Administer the ball from a distance when appropriate (i.e. not during a press)

Things are a little different around here. I have always looked at how I perform during summer ball as not much different to how I perform during the regular season. I hustle, I put the ball in play where it's supposed to be put in play, I would never sit down during the game. If you accept a game and you're getting paid, you should do the job. If you don't think it's enough money, don't take the game. I'm happy to only work for an assignor who expects this of everyone. It burns my a$$ when my partner walks down the court. I realize I'm in the minority here, but that's just my own philosophy.

In summer ball I will continue to hustle. I almost always work no more than 3 games in a day. The most I'll work is 4, and there has to be at least a one game break after the 2nd or 3rd game. I refuse to work any amount of games that would cause me to be so tired as to walk during transition.

Same here. Even when I was younger and could run all day, I still couldn't stay focused beyond 4 games. There's no way anyone can work 6 games in a day and do a good job in game 6.

My opinion ... some of these are bad tips and make you look weak as an official.

Reporting from a distance (if done with good signals and a loud voice) or administering the throw in from a distance is fairly common in all the recreation/summer ball I've seen and is helpful to avoid long or unnecessary switches -- I usually differ to my partner as to how much switching to do since I'm generally the younger/newer of the crew, but if we are limiting switching then I do both of these things.

On the other hand, walking up the floor, or not hustling all the way to the endline, putting the ball in play at the wrong spot, or sitting during timeouts will make you stand out (and not in a good way). Being seen as lazy is not a label I want.

Our association has also told us explicitly not to "tell the players to get the ball", so that's a no for me as well.

I disagree with just about every one of these. They may save you a few steps per game but they all make the official look lazy and/or inept. If you accept the assignment, do it to the best of your ability in a professional manner. Hustle, use good mechanics, and portray a professional image. All of the above convey the exact opposite.

I never tell a player to get the ball. But I stand there until it's brought to me. With a running clock (in the summer), I usually don't have to wait long.

I hustle as well, but we do not switch and do the dead ball stuff the same (switching, mechanics movement, substitution procedures). That is usually to cut time out of dead time because the clock is moving. Otherwise the running from one position to another is practically the same.

Peace

I don't work the summer AAU circuit around here for one simple reason--the organization refuses to pay the officials enough. During the regular season, the two-man fee is $60 and 3-man is $50 for varsity games (plus a travel fee), yet during AAU tournaments the organizers want the officials to accept $30 & no travel fee for a two-man game which is stop-clock and the same amount of playing time as a HS contest (either four 8-minute quarters or two 16-minute halves). Why? Because they wish to put the rest of the money in their pockets!
My answer is to not work those events until they become willing to pay what has been established by the high school administrators and the association leadership to be a fair fee.
Sadly, I frequently see people trying to work six or seven games per day at these tournaments. They are stupid and don't realize that if they refused, the tourney would have to raise the rates in order to attract more officials and they could make the same amount while working far fewer games!

Note: my comments apply to AAU games involving players of HS age. I don't care what they pay for little kid games because I'm not interested in officiating those. To me that's not basketball, it's babysitting.

I'm amazed that locally AAU games pay $20 and people that assign act as though that's a great deal. It's a key reason I simply don't work summer basketball unless I'm going to a camp (and then I'll work only to shake off the rust).

Bad advice.
You never know who is watching.

We can take some shortcuts but we are still getting paid to do a job so do it the best you can. That said, we won't long switch on non-shooting fouls but other than that, I don't want to seem lazy or bored, nor do I want to get bad habits. I still hustle to report fouls but my reporting area is larger. Never sit during a game and my pet peeve, keep phones out of sight. I saw an official wearing one on hip. Checked it on every time out.

Caveat Reftor
 

If this post had a "Like" button I would not click on it.
REAL LIFE PROBLEM WITH THIS:
Some (read: "toooooooooo many") engrain these as habits during summer ball and are unable to abandon them once the high school season starts.
You?

Thanks to all my Ref colleagues for the bevy of replies. I can certainly see how some Refs would prefer to hold-back on utilizing the level of effort for a ''non-registered game" vs. a "registered" game. Conversely, I can see how some Refs want to use summer hoops work as a platform to continue perfecting their own Reffing skills. These teams are comprised of selected players who also attend hoops training seshs during the week and use the weekends to participate in district-wide tournaments. They pay $25 per game and issue the game check when you check at front desk PRIOR to reffing a game. So.....

For now, I will continue to hustle and officiate as if these were "registered" NFHS-type of games. I do not want to start "unconsciously" picking up bad habits in terms of mechanics, laziness, or percieved nonchalance. Hey after all---the last time I checked, me and partner Ref were the only folks being "paid" cash money to be at these games, so I ought give my best effort to do the games. Who knows, that 'hot mom' in the bleachers could be a local administrator who knows my assigner---it is very hard [read as: impossible] to disengage a perception of laziness and nonchalance as a Ref.

My only question here is, do you chase the ball down when it heads 20-30 feet out of bounds? We're told specifically not to chase the ball, especially if it entails turning your back on the players.

I can't imagine doing any of these.

I don't chase balls during the season, so that one doesn't apply here, IMO.

I will report from a bit further away during the summer, but only to speed the game up to fit into the schedule. Same with throw in administration. You're not really saving any steps with either anyway.

I've searched through my old emails and I can't find the email that I'm remembering... so I must back-track a bit from my assertion that my association stated this directly (maybe it was verbally at a meeting instead of an email or from one of my non-association assignors).

But the instruction that I recall was simply to not tell players to go get the ball (looks lazy and it is not their job). 99% of the time, the ball makes it's way back to the official in a reasonable amount of time. In a case where the ball ends up at the other end of the court and no player is nearby to pick it up, the game is now being held up. It would be inappropriate for the officials to direct one of the players to go chase after it. In that case, the nearest official should jog over and get it.

But I did not mean to suggest that every time the ball goes out of bounds, there should be an official running right after it and turning his back to the players.

Fair enough. In that case, I think waiting would be appropriate. It's not our job to chase the ball around, IMO. Dead ball periods are more vital for all available eyes to be on the players. Normally, if it ends up in the stands, there's an 8 year old thrilled to throw it to the refs.

Amen. My philosophies =

*You never know who is watching.
*The kids are running so I owe it to them to run as well.

I do understand the idea behind saving energy/steps if you're working multiple games but I don't work more than two in a row, summer or winter. Economics play a large role: The HS summer leagues I work don't pay less than $40/game and at least one of them is $50/game. Such is the price of doing business in the NY/Metro area.

In terms of telling the kids to get the ball, I don't "tell" them. I do ask them ("Young man/lady, do me a favor? Go get that ball please?) but that's how I do it in the winter as well. I usually don't have to ask as often in running-time games. Someone will get the ball. They can't play without it.

Agree that waiting will usually solve the problem. I think the point would be that it's not necessarily the players job either. So "let them" get the ball but don't "direct them" to get the ball.

"White 21 ... go get the ball please" isn't something I'm going to say. I'm going to go get the ball myself if we are truly at a standstill.

I'll ask, but only if it takes longer than normal. Even then, it's "Can I get some help with the ball?"

I don't mind the stand-still. :)

The situation has always resolved itself before the stand-still, though.

Not me. I'd go find a drink first. I don't chase basketballs.

About 90% of my summer games are at same facility. We get $23-25/game. The on site game admin for all the AAU tournaments is the national coordinator for AAU officiating, and also a neutral observer for my top college conference. I can get away with limited switches and long distance reporting in 2-man to keep the games moving, but anything that could be construed as lazy or unprofessional would be very detrimental to my career.

Relaxed Mechiancs ...
 

This thread reminds me about some of the "relaxed" mechanics that we are allowed to use, that is, allowed by our assigner to use, in the Catholic middle school league that I work when I'm available in the winter.

Multiple games, with six, or seven, minute periods are scheduled on the hour, and our assigner encourages us (all two person games) to keep the game moving.

1) Don't switch on every foul. Switch when "convenient", or only on shooting fouls.

2) Lead doesn't have to report fouls to the table from the reporting area. The Lead may report fouls to the table from near the free throw line (not from the endline).

3) As the Lead, don't make your partner, the trail, rotate on front court endline throwins where the designated spot is along the lane lines. The Lead is allowed to toss the ball to the inbounder across the lane, or hand the ball to the inbounder and back off across the lane, in such situations. The ball must still be put in play at the closest spot.

4) We're allowed to "bump up" the timeouts.

If I'm working with a rookie who wants to work on his, or her, mechanics, then I'll be glad to play along and go with 100% "by the book" mechanics.

No matter how many games we're working that day, we are always expected to hustle.

In regard to these "bad habits" carrying over to our high school games, they don't. We've got college officials, state tournament officials, and other top notch high school varsity officials working these Catholic middle school games, and they have no problem figuring out when "relaxed" mechanics are allowed, and when they're not allowed.

For what it's worth, I did find the email I was thinking of and it was from our Scholastic commissioner/assigner to all officials based on his observations from the first couple weeks of the season:

"There is no NFHS rule or Association policy that states players are supposed to retrieve a loose ball. It is the responsibility of a member of the crew to retrieve the ball while the other member/s of crew observe the players. Forcing players to retrieve the ball gives the appearance we are lazy or out of shape."

This has to be the only time I've heard of any group - HS or NCAA - telling its officials to retrieve a ball that goes OOB and leave their partner(s) to deal with the players. I would have asked those in charge what's better in a two-person game: two sets of eyes on nine players or one set of eyes on ten players?

I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that is interesting that the feedback seems to be that this is unusual or even a bad idea. To me, it seems like a reasonable policy.

Common sense dictates that the official is not going to turn his back and leave the players if there is any concern about an altercation or unsporting activity. All the officials would deal with that situation before thinking about the ball -- no different than leaving to report a foul.

What I find unusual about it is that it's no more the official's job to chase basketballs than it is the players. I'm stunned that an assigner would put that on the officials, actually.

summer league observations....
 

Aside from "retrieving ball" issues, are any of you finding that you are more lenient towards the coaches in terms of "interacting with them"---in this summer youth league all the coaches are volunteers and although they are clearly enthusiastic and dedicated, I do find them to be less--shall we say--refined than your garden variety NFHS-type of coach.

The opposite, actually. I've found through my experience that being more lenient actually leads to more problems. Make your expectations clear, in a professional manner, and follow through.

Nope...in fact I'm a little stricter during summer ball with regards to conduct from the coaches than I am during the season.

I don't do a whole lot of 'interacting' with coaches during the season anyway, but I hold a tighter line on the conduct during the summer. Simply put if I have to drive 30-40 minutes away from my home to ref 3-4 games for $25 a game that, for me anyway, is not enough to be yelled at like we're in the middle of a late-season game with playoff implications.

This is summer ball. No one 20 years from now is going to care who won a particular summer league tournament or game. I'll hustle down the court like I always do, but for $25 I'm not taking a whole lot of grief from the benches. Not worth it for me....

I don't know about leniency, but I am less inclinded to explain my reason for a call to a summer league/youth league coach who is a volunteer.

With summer league coaches, I use one of the three following phrases about 95% of the time to respond to a coach:

1) I'll continue to watch for it coach.
2) Coach, that wasn't a foul/violation.
3) Coach, that's enough.

Maybe they've been watching too much NBA, where the officials do chase the ball for multi-millionaire athletes.

It Isn't Like Baseball ???
 

What? Those fans sitting in the thousand dollar courtside seats aren't allowed to keep the balls that end up in their laps?

Nobody chases anything in the NBA. The ball ends up back on the court.

It's like sorcery.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic. NBA refs often chase the ball down to speed up play. Happens a couple times a game.

Surprised that you would put yourself in a position which could turn out to "be very detrimental to your career" for $23-$25 per game.

AAU has a national coordinator of officiating? Can't believe that organization gives a darn in any way about officiating. To hear that their national coordinator is only offering $25 a game, makes it clear why so many of those AAU tournaments try get the officials for cut rates. No thanks!

I do not consider a running clock game that might last an hour "cut rate." Not to say that is a great fee, but it is not like if you do those games you are doing all the stuff you would during the regular season.

Peace

In my area, these games are basically assigning warm bodies. Most veteran or experienced officials do not even take these games unless they are basically "whoring" for the money. That has included me as well from time to time. I do not do these games really for any other reason but to possibly see more plays. But if the money was not a factor, I would stay home. Otherwise it is not that deep or no one of significance is evaluating officials based off of what is done at this level. And in many cases a person is working 5 and 6 games in a row. This just goes to show that we all live in different officiating cultures.

Peace

Who said it was running clock?
AAU tournaments in my area are always stop-clock.

Me too. I'm doing 4 JV level games next Sunday back to back and it's to put a C-note in my pocket. I'm going to Disney World next month with the family and with all the prepaid stuff I already feel like I'm hemorrhaging money.

And The Money Doesn't Hurt ...
 

Bingo.

Me too, and to work on my coach/player management skillz.

He has nothing to do with paying or assigning local officials for AAU. I said he was site admin for local tournaments.

AAU has national officials who travel to different sites to work games every summer. He is the 1 who vets the applications for national officials.

Well they often are running clock. Again it might depend on the tournament or what level the tournament, but most off-season games where I am are running clock. Now I have done some AAU games that were stop clock, but I did that only in situations where I was working a camp. But this might be different your area.

Peace

Around these parts games are hard to come by, even at $22 per game. For almost all tournaments refs are coordinated by someone in our chapter (but aren't really chapter games) and most of us only work these "chapter" related games because there is some level of protection from summer ball problems like not getting paid timely, no admin support for refs at games, etc. Most of these games go to very experienced refs (JV to College) and I don't know of anyone in our area that has that attitude that they are too good to work summer ball.

Most of us use summer ball to hone our skills and stay fresh. We do get a little relaxed in our reporting, switching and rotating but not to the point of being lazy or compromising the game. For the most part, the attitude isto tret every game lije its a "real" game because uts real to the players and they deserve our best effort. If paired with a less experienced ref, we will focus on helping them with mechanics and I always try to pick one or two things I want to focus on to improve.

Almost every weekend there are tournaments with teams from 6th grade all the way up to Varsity college showcases (including AAU) and we probably use between 75 most weekends and up to 200 people when there are multiple tournaments. If we had people refusing then it would be tough to cover some weekends.

I know $22 isn't much but since I like bball enough to do this for free the I am happy to take it. I don't have to travel farand work 6 - 12 games a weekend so its worth it.

To the Point of the OP
 

Quote by Monty McCutcheon, NBA basketball official:

"Officiating is about creating good habits, so that we can depend on them at the biggest moment. If we don't create good habits in our pre-season schedule of scrimmages and camps and work at home, then we don't have them to draw on when we need them in that big regular season or post-season game."

Preach, Freddy! Preach! :D

To update, today I witnessed the national officials working at the local venue go into a meeting with the national on-site observer to discuss an issue they were having, so there is accountability.

Also the national coordinator does not intervene in local AAU officiating matters. If he sees or hears about something questionable while working as site administration, he will request that the local assignors observe the officials.

Rich,

Just keep saying to yourself, "Disney money is not like real money."

I almost blew a gasket last time I was there. 2 hot dogs and 2 drinks was more than $20.

I doubt seriously that he is talking about anything we are discussing here. Summer ball and regular season ball in most places are not even in the same ball park of expectations. Even the players and coaches know it is different.

Peace

For some reason the coaches and players here expect officials to take more shit during the summer than during the high school season. For me it's the opposite.

Rich - If you think your spending now, wait 'til you get there!

Roger

When I said they treated it differnet, I did not mean that they complain less. Sometimes coaches complain from places not near the bench. Coaches in certain sitautions do not sit by their team's bench and often are in the stands and complaining as if they were on the bench. I know I do not treat them the same when they are not near the bench and often talk back more. But the point I was making is that during that a lot of things are not as regimented. Heck in many cases we are not keeping foul counts, so I do not see anyone caring if we do not get to the reporting area or switch on fouls or dead ball situations.

Peace

On last night's game, my partner had been reffing since 2 pm, I arrived to gym at 6 pm (after I got off from work) and did 3 games with him until 9 pm. These were 8th graders from a club team. As that was his 5 th consecutive game, I told him that "hey we don't have to long switch on endline to backcourt area because I'm sure your legs/feet are tired". He appreciated that and siad that "thanks, I was hoping not having to walk as much." I could tell he was quite fatigued because he'd walk up the floor (with a gait indicating ailing feet, hips, legs or back) and also fail to reach the endline when he became the new lead and was following the fast break / outlet pass action. But all in all, I'm sure he reasoned that it best to have a big game check regardless of how ineffective the ref work labor rendered him.

Or he was filling in for someone who couldn't show. Or he was doing the assigner a favor by working that many games. I'd be slow to assign any motives unless you've got more information that you shared here.

Assignor put him on 8 games that day (is what he told me)--evidently that ref agreed to work those consecutive games and was therefore obligated to be there. But I'm sure he's enjoying his $200 payout from that day.

And if all the refs would get together and refuse to work more than four games in a day, the organizers and teams would be forced to offer more money in order to attract enough officials to cover the games. Everyone realizes that the organizers are making money with each game that is played, right?
Perhaps he could work four games at $50 each and make the same $200 in half the time. It continually amazes me that officials sell themselves short. The guy doing eight games in a day is not helping, he is hurting his fellow officials. He needs a wake up call. He is opting to take a short term gain, but the sacrifice is a long term loss.

Officials are not going to get together on something like this no matter how you or I feel about this practice. Officiating these games are money grabs for the officials and officials are not going to do them for reasons beyond the money if the money is right. Remember, if someone agrees the terms of the contract, they are willing to do the work. Not many places you are going to make that kind of money in one day guaranteed on a hourly basis. These are not "real" games and not with often the same intensity or even responsibility you would have to take during a real game (uniform, time, rules, pre-game procedures). I have seen people from all walks of life and professions take these games in a similar fashion. Or they hop from one site to another and do the same thing.

I know a lot of people that use officiating these games as a way to pay for things like kids schooling or money for a vacation, if they want to take the time, more power to them. Someone working these games are not hurting me, because I might not take these games in the first place. And if I do, no one is holding a gun to me to make me either way.

Peace

I have some experience trying to organize officials to demand more money from an adult baseball league. A few people told me they thought the pay was quite fair (some of the worst umpires, BTW). Other decided they could pick up more games once the troublemakers went away.

As a group, we eat our own.

You go that right about eating our own.

When I lived in GA from '96 until the end of '99 the going rate for varsity/JV was $35/$27. We tried to get other groups to organize to effect some sort of increase. Of course, one group offered to do games for $30/$25 and that killed the plan.

As for rec ball, forget it. Some guys were paying $10/game at that time. The guy I worked for did $20. I worked four stop-time games on a single night three times and then said no more. I valued my time and, at that moment, my time with my young children too much to be out of the house for 7.5 hours to make $80. Frankly, it also wasn't going to help me become a better official.

Well you sorta make it sound like we are "prostituting" ourselves with these game assignments that are less than NFHS level type of games.

I guess we must realize that each ref has different objectives--both short and long term in terms of developing in this avocation. For some refs, their main goal is just to make movie money, short bill pays money, and/or supplemental living expenses money. For such Refs it is: "hey man, I just baby-sitting these kids keeping them from killing each other out here for 40 minutes". Whereas for others it is: "each time I am out here, I'm focusing on 2 parts of my reffing game to improve upon and I will be self-critical of my performance".

When I worked on Sunday, I did 4 games.

We switched on most fouls. I ran for all 4 games (they were JV boys, so it wasn't as fast as what I usually work).

We started about 20 minutes behind schedule. By the end of our 4th game, we were 10 minutes ahead. 3 minutes pregame and 3 minute halftimes will do that. We also only had one team in 4 games reach the bonus - once.

For me - I had some fun, got some exercise, and made $100. I wasn't looking to improve anything -- I was working 2-person and if I was really looking to use this to improve, I would've brought a third person along with me. I've only worked 6 games since March.

cdfu!

*enjoy your disney vacay with that ref money! Mr. Rich