Paul George concussion
 

Poor job implementing the league's concussion policy by the Pacers.
Yet another example of pro sports putting the game ahead of the health of the people playing. Not a positive example for all the HS and NCAA (plus younger) athletes out there.
The hypocrisy is clear.


From ESPN
Indiana Pacers All-Star swingman Paul George was diagnosed with a concussion Wednesday, just hours after he took a hit to the head from Dwyane Wade's knee during Game 2 of the Eastern Conference finals, the team announced.

George now will begin the NBA-mandated protocol for return to action, the Pacers said.
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From yahoo

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...054351773.html

The only way for the Pacers to know that George had a concussion was if he exhibited signs or symptoms, or TOLD them he was having symptoms. Watching the game, there was no way to look at him and tell anything was wrong, and if he didn't tell anyone he had blurred vision or a headache, then there was no way for them to know.

So to call this situation hypocrisy is ridiculous.

Agreed. Unless George was forgetting things in the huddle, stumbling, etc. or he said something to the coaching/training staff and no one responded how can the Pacers or the league be accused of hypocrisy? He's a grown-a** man. If he doesn't open his mouth and say "I blacked out" and/or he answers the concussion-related questions properly he can keep playing. It doesn't necessarily follow that someone is concussed once they've taken a blow to the head. He's been diagnosed so now here are the next steps:

If the Pacers don't follow the protocol then you can talk about hypocrisy.

As I mentioned I was at the game last night. From my seat I could tell something serious had happened. PG was facedown on floor and didn't move for about 20 seconds. I watched the replay and didn't see much contact from Wade, but PG's head did hit the floor. I thought he would go back to the locker room for analysis, but he didn't. I was surprised to see him check back into the game -- I was certain he had a concussion.

According to ESPN George denied dizziness, nausea, and issues with his vision when asked by the Pacers medical staff. He was also active and aware of his surroundings. Without visible symptoms the medical staff had no reason to keep him out.

Now, why he later admitted blacking out during the press conference is a mystery to me and sure doesn't make the staff look good.

My first thought when I saw the play was that PG had a concussion.

Did anyone see enough to have at him by NFHS rules?

If I had seen the knee to the head, followed by his slowness to get up, I would have gone to the concussion protocol.

Connecticut ...
 

Here, in The Constitution State, we would have said to the coach, "I believe that your player was kneed in the head and he looks wobbly" (note that we're discouraged from using the "C" word). After that, it's entirely up to the coach to allow, or disallow, that player from continued participating in the game.

From our protocol (follows state law, and state athletic governing body, guidelines):

If an official observes a player exhibiting any signs or symptoms of a possible
concussion, he/she shall provide the opportunity for the coach, trainer, or other
appropriate health care professionals to properly check the athlete and then defer
to the their judgment.
• The official should stop play and either beckons the coach onto the field or escort
the player to the coach, depending on the circumstance. State that “the player should
be checked out, and if necessary, provide other information you deem appropriate”.
Do not say that the athlete has a concussion. At this point the official’s job is done.
• If it is determined the athlete is not injured or the injury is NOT related to a
concussion the athlete may return to the game in accordance with NFHS rules.
• If an athlete is returned to the game and the official again observes signs and
symptoms of a possible concussion, the protocol should be repeated.

In part, Public Act 1062
– An Act Concerning Student Athletes And Concussions…
�� Mandates that all coaches complete a course in the management of
concussions prior to coaching that includes training in the recognition of
signs and symptoms of a concussion or head injury;
�� Places the primary responsibility for the athlete’s health and safety, including
the recognition of signs and symptoms of a possible concussion on the coach;
�� Requires that a coach must immediately remove a student athlete from
participating in a game or practice who is observed to exhibit signs,
symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion, following an observed
or suspected blow to the head or body, or if the athlete is diagnosed with a
concussion;
�� Emphasizes that coaches abide by the return to play procedure and protocol
required by the law, which includes written medical clearance by a licensed
health care professional*, followed by a gradual return to play procedure that
should prohibit any student confirmed to have signs and symptoms of a
concussion to return to play on the same day as the injury. *(According to
CT state law, a licensed health care professional is a physician,
physician’s assistant, advanced practice registered nurse, and an athletic
trainer trained in the evaluation and management of concussions)
�� States that any coach found in violation of the law may have his/her coaching
certificate revoked.

New NBA addition to the concussion protocol: poll the fans. ;)

Here's NJ's protocol:

I like the fact there's no requirement to say anything to the HC. Beckoning him/her onto the floor is enough to indicate we think something isn't right.

By that criteria, Lance Stephenson should have been put into the protocol as well when he flopped and stayed down not moving.

Uh, what? I never implied that at all.

What is your point?

Sure, in a vacuum, but he didn't watch it from a vacuum.

Two points:
1. ESPN article saying that George told the Pacers docs that he was fine and only confessed to blurry vision and a hurting head later, plus the NBA said that the policy was followed: 2014 NBA playoffs -- Paul George of Indiana Pacers says he's symptom-free after concussion - ESPN

2. Kornheiser and Wilbon from their PTI show note in the video on the same page as the above story that the NBA policy was NOT followed as George was not taken to a quiet place to be examined. He was questioned on the bench during the TO.

Lastly, who couldn't tell that this player was unconscious? That should have triggered a serious examination and return-to-play protocol.

I am not a doctor and I would have had not idea considering how players fall and act like they are killed. If anything it looked like a typical play without the slow motion video.

Again, I do not see the big deal. This is a sport that rarely has these kinds of incidents where it is obvious to those that is even an issue. It is more of an issue in a sport like football where you immediately think of those kinds of injuries.

Peace

1. Could someone please translate the part in red.

2. How do you tell if a player is knocked unconscious in football, since you state that it [suffering a concussion] is more of an issue in that sport?

JRut can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he means if he were a doctor he would not consider how a player fell or ended up on the ground to be a sign of a concussion. Players can hit the ground hard and not get concussed or hit the ground soft and get concussed. You can't tell just from the fall whether a player has a concussion or not -- only the concussion protocol can do that.

PS: Jeez Nevadaref delete some of your PM's already so I can PM you a soccer question.

Players constantly exaggerate the effects of contact by laying on the floor, much in the same manner that George did. Short of actually seeing the knee hit George's head, trainers, in a sport where concussions are not in the forefront like it football, would not jump to unconsciousness.

The question which I asked and to which Rut responded was not if the player was concussed, but if he was unconscious. I don't believe it takes a doctor to determine that!

I'll delete my PMs this weekend.

It takes a doctor to determine or at least a Physical Trainer to determine these things, not an official. Even in the NF policy it only asks officials to remove players from the game, we do not determine if they have or do not have a concussion.

I have had football games where they individual was wobbling off the field when medical personnell attended to them only to be told, "They do not have a concussion." And nothing I saw in this game with George looked any worse or over the top to what I have seen on the football field. And it is very possible that George was concussed and needed to not play, but it sounds like there is very little consideration in basketball as it relates to football.

Peace

It was a typo trying to edit my original comments.

All we do in football (at least at the HS level) is take out players based on the symptoms stated in the guidelines. Football has a lot more heavy collisions and it is often more obvious when players are hurt. And even many contact is not always head related. All we can do is observe behavior and some of the symptoms of concussions are also heat related conditions. After a Health Care Professional sees them, we allow them to tell us if the player is allowed to play. Who that persons are, is up to the IHSA and the school. The IHSA follows up on if state procedures and laws are followed.

Peace

If George was asked the evaluation questions while sitting on the bench and responded "properly" and if he didn't show any signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion why would there have been a need to take him to a quiet place to be examined?

As to "who couldn't tell...(he) was unconscious": Staying down on the court for a long time means there was a loss of consciousness? One of my sons suffered a concussion at 13 while playing baseball (a bat him him in the side of the jaw while he was playing catcher). He didn't show any of the signs/symptoms/behaviors until 45 minutes later when I got him home. It's not an exact science.