How long is 5 and 10 seconds?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mlancaster
A really good camp/training mechanism is to have officials line up, close their eyes, and proceed with a visible 10 second count. Very few will be at or under the 10 seconds....most will be well over.
Food for thought...I recommend something like this as a part of your training or even general meetings. Most officials will be VERY surprised that they do not have accurate counts!

Great idea!! I'm taking this one to the bank!!

[Mlancaster]

Every now and again I screw up and say something that actually makes sense..........

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

15.

[cmathews]

Yes pennsylvania coach...that just about sums it up...

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
15.

I've heard enough coach! Keep it up and you'll be seatbelted

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
15.

For our Canadian friends, that's 18.7 due to the exchange rate.

Also, for our FEEBLE friends, that's 21.4 in metric.


Hey - you knew it was coming.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by mick
My visual count for 5 (Closely guarded) usually starts at "Two".
My visual count for an administered throw-in will start at "One"
My visual count for 10 usually starts at "Five".

mick

mick,

I don't have a problem with the backcourt and the throw-in counts you talk about. However, on the closely guarded count, I do not think that you should have any silent count. The way the game is taught now (rightly or wrongly)has the player reacting when they see the arm start the counting motion. Otherwise they are going under the impression that the closely guarded count has not started. If you have the 5 whistle and only 4 flicks, the coach will definitely pick this up when watching the film later, if not from counting your flicks when they happen.

[mick]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

mick,

I don't have a problem with the backcourt and the throw-in counts you talk about. However, on the closely guarded count, I do not think that you should have any silent count. The way the game is taught now (rightly or wrongly)has the player reacting when they see the arm start the counting motion. Otherwise they are going under the impression that the closely guarded count has not started. If you have the 5 whistle and only 4 flicks, the coach will definitely pick this up when watching the film later, if not from counting your flicks when they happen.

bigwhistle,
I used to give all the counts, but I went:

Left left, right right left left left right right right left right

...too many times to convince myself that it was worth anything. I remain unconvinced, but then I'm left-handed.

I cannot imagine the Coaches are watching me for the first couple/few seconds. They use that mental tick of experience to judge the time while watching the action. By the time they even think about watching me, my arm is swinging sharply, above the waist and very close to one second each.

...And besides, I usually only get one closley guarded call every couple games.

The way I played the game was in the my man's jock all night long. If the coaches are telling their players to take the ball when the officials' arm is moving, to look at something other than the opponents' eyes, or belly button or ball, ... well, I just cannot believe that.
mick

[Hawks Coach]

Mick, we aren't coaching to play defense differently, but I am watching your hand to know when you are actually considering a person to be closely guarded. The rule and its enforcement are usually quite different. If you use the rule, the person does not appear to be "closely guarded," and most refs use something around 3 feet to start their count.

I have never noticed anyone starting the count midway through the closely guarded situation, and I think I would wonder WTH you were doing if the distance between O and D didn't change and the count started well after the closely guarded began.

[mick]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Mick, we aren't coaching to play defense differently, but I am watching your hand to know when you are actually considering a person to be closely guarded. The rule and its enforcement are usually quite different. If you use the rule, the person does not appear to be "closely guarded," and most refs use something around 3 feet to start their count.

I have never noticed anyone starting the count midway through the closely guarded situation, and I think I would wonder WTH you were doing if the distance between O and D didn't change and the count started well after the closely guarded began.

Okay.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
The way I played the game was in the my man's jock all night long.

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Mick, we aren't coaching to play defense differently

Coach, you teach your girls to be in their opponents' jock all night?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by mick
I cannot imagine the Coaches are watching me for the first couple/few seconds.

Not during the live action, but during the tape-watching later that night, you can bet I am. I used to get frustrated about the times we were guarding closely for 6 or 7 seconds according the VCR counter clock, but no call. I'd rewind the tape, see that the official waited until we had a defender there for a second or more before starting the count, get to four-and-a-half arm swings, and pass on the whistle as the player started a move or made a pass.

My reaction to my TV in the darkness at 1 AM is always, "what about the two seconds before you started counting??!?!!"

I like your method, mick. It'd work just fine in my games. I can think of one situation it might cause a little problem--late in the game when we are protecting a lead. I agree that it's difficult for a defender to guard and see the official and count his arm swings, but I have had players smart enough to hold the ball for four arm swings, a quick dribble, hold for a couple more swings then make the pass.

[mick]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
I can think of one situation it might cause a little problem--late in the game when we are protecting a lead. I agree that it's difficult for a defender to guard and see the official and count his arm swings, but I have had players smart enough to hold the ball for four arm swings, a quick dribble, hold for a couple more swings then make the pass.

PA Coach,
I'll take that under advisement.
Certainly, there are critical times when the visible count is most important.
mick

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by mick
I used to give all the counts, but I went:

Left left, right right left left left right right right left right

...too many times to convince myself that it was worth anything. I remain unconvinced, but then I'm left-handed.

mick -- for the record, I'm left-handed, too, but I gotta disagree with you. I hated the way it felt -- I felt like a bleepin' windmill. But at one of the biggest games of the season about two years ago, I was watching one of our best refs do exactly this routine. left left right right, etc. I figured if he could do it, I could too. When defense is playing tight, and the ball is being passed around the perimeter, it feels like an jazzercise routine, and it lets the coaches know that I am on top of things and in the game. At the beginning of the game, it sets the standard for that game, since I call it farther apart than a lot of folks. When the heat's on, it sends the message that the offense needs to keep working hard. In a blow-out, it lets the offense know that they can't "rest on their laurels."

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

mick -- for the record, I'm left-handed, too, but I gotta disagree with you. I hated the way it felt -- I felt like a bleepin' windmill. But at one of the biggest games of the season about two years ago, I was watching one of our best refs do exactly this routine. left left right right, etc. I figured if he could do it, I could too. When defense is playing tight, and the ball is being passed around the perimeter, it feels like an jazzercise routine, and it lets the coaches know that I am on top of things and in the game. At the beginning of the game, it sets the standard for that game, since I call it farther apart than a lot of folks. When the heat's on, it sends the message that the offense needs to keep working hard. In a blow-out, it lets the offense know that they can't "rest on their laurels."

What she said.