Happened at Half, What do you do?
 

This came up at our recent association meeting. At one of the HS gyms, probably like many, if not most, around the country, two of our officials were in a coach's office behind closed doors in the home team's locker room. According to the officials, the home team's HC was saying loud enough for them to hear things like "these two officials suck" and "that they have no idea what they are doing" and "we know if it comes to it they will get it wrong" etc. The officials did not assess a T because the "R" on the game said they had to treat the half time situation just as if they were in a separate facility even though they were in the same locker room. He felt that the closed door made it a separate area. The coach was whacked later in the game.

Surprisingly to me, our association was split on this. I believe because the coach knew they were in there and spoke loud enough for them to hear him, he gets the T for his comments in the locker room. Others agreed with the R's rationale. What say you?

Unless there is an interpretation from someone in your state or local association, then I really do not see the benefit of giving a T in that situation.

Now if I knew this, the coach would be on thin ice. I would not tolerate many comments from that coach moving forward. I would not make an issue out of it. I would not mention it to him or anyone else. I would just not give him the benefit of the doubt when the game continued. And I am not surprised there was a T later.

This fits into the category of "Silence cannot be misquoted." Once you get the genie out of the bottle, then you subject yourself to what others might think or say. And if a coach is too stupid to not be overhead and he is the home coach, it is his fault when it is held against him/her later.

Peace

I agree with Jeff (is there a full moon? ;) )

If he'd said those things to you while you're on the way to your dressing area that's one thing. He said it in his office so you should leave it alone but his leash for the 2nd half becomes so short he'll need a microscope to see it.

He's doing that for a reason since he knows you and your partner can hear him. It's similar to when a HC says something about you to his AC or other bench personnel while you're right in front of him then when you turn around he says, "I wasn't talking to you." If someone wants to play that game that's fine but he should be prepared to deal with the consequences of his actions.

I agree with with what has been said so far. If it's directly to you in the hallway, or dressing room etc. Then T away. Heck you could even toss him. But in a conversation to his kids I wouldn't T. But in the second half his rope would be evaporated.

I don't think there is any justification for giving a T here as there is nothing that suggests the the officials have jurisdiction over the locker room. The coach can have whatever opinion he wants while in the locker room at half time.

Other than be more aware of the coaches actions in the second half, I think you just ignore. If I overheard anything (related to the refs or not) from the locker room that was so extreme that it could not be ignored, then I would address it with the Athletic Dept (through my association) after the game. Again, I don't see any authority to penalize what is overheard from inside the locker room.

I'd leave it alone at the time, but the location of our dressing area and the loud comments directed our way would go into any report I'd file later.

The coach would have no rope in the second half. I'd whack him on the FIRST opportunity. He'd know why, too, so no explanation would be needed, either.

I disagree with the "no jurisdiction" comment, but I agree that a locker room confrontation is something I'm not interested in pursuing.

I haven't T'd many HC's in my career, but I would say about 1/2 of them started with this scenario.

Funny how adults like to play these childish games.

On the other side of the coin, there was the instance where officials got disciplined for making comments in the dressing room after the game that were overheard by someone at the school (maybe an assistant coach).

Nothing to see here
 

None of this would ever hurt my feelings. Maybe venting (although inappropriate as if may be) might be just what this a-hole needs to get it out of his system. Your there to do a job; not to be popular. Be fair, impartial, and officiate what is in front of you. The rest will take care of itself. Like the T this guy eventually received later on in the game.

You can't penalize this. But you can report it. And as others have said ... the rope is gone.

Points all well taken. That is why I love having this board to bring these type of things forward for discussion. Our association was really split over the jurisdiction issue. The others in favor of the T felt that the locker room didn't give the coach a free shot believing he knew he would be heard by the crew. I was in that camp but I am now in agreement with all of you. It was reported to the school's AD and the State Sportsmanship Committee. Thanks.

I'm with Rich. I think we do have jurisdiction, and the coach may as well have been yelling at you through your door. However, unless directed otherwise, I'm going to try to maintain the sanctity of the locker room.

No rope, no warnings in the second half.

If we penalize the coach during the half-time without being confronted, it is going to turn into a "hearsay" situation. And then we are going to be confronted with more questions than I would like to take on. I just can imagine the conversations coming from assignors or the state if that is why we penalized a coach for just for what we overheard. This is why IMO wait until he acts up on the court and then it makes him wonder. Then we got him where we want him, rather than giving him a "victim" role that will be played if we come out and give a T for something no one was around to witness.

Peace

+1 Jeff!

Exactly. And we assume that people can hear what we say in the locker room, too. Always.

I disagree with Jeff's reasoning slightly here. If we get confronted by the coach in the locker room, directly, I'm calling the T regardless of who else hears the conversation.

"He said-he said" isn't a real concern for me.

I agree with this.

Put me down as one who thinks we can issue a T here but I think it is best to handle it this way.

The coach will get no quarter in the second half. He's used up all of his goodwill with that little stunt.

And I also think, for the record, his players will get little rope as well. I'm thinking this through, though.

Tech him. It's not a game of he-said-she-said if your partners heard it too. Stick together and do the right thing. These comments would be an easy T if overheard on the bench, or on the way to the locker room. Treat it the same. You're gonna whack him eventually, might as well do it sooner.

It is still he-said-he-said no matter who heard it. The problem is that unless you confront the coach immediately, they do not know you heard them and will get them denying they said it or that it was them that made the comments. And unless you do that, they will easily claim they made no such comment. So instead of it being a T that is accepted, it will be a debate that it was said at all. And the coach will claim you guys got together and went after the coach.

My point is do it so that everyone can observe his actions. When you do it behind closed doors, you give them a way to make other accusations. It would be no different if they said you said something and it was overheard. It would be hard for them to prove too. Wait until he raises his voice on the court and at least everyone can see that took place.

Peace

Yes, this type of information definitely goes into a Game Report to the assignor.

+1

Plus, you have just created an entirely new problem, and still have half a basketball game to go (probably with his ejection shortly after). Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. I am all for any rope what so ever being taken away. I am not going to take anything that comes out of his/her mouth personally. If he continues whack him; if he doesn't stop send him off. All in the course of doing your job and it doesn't look personal on your end. Just like any other foul. JMO

It's always a he-said-he-said situation. There's actually more witnesses here than some of the on-the-court situations. That's not enough of a reason not to penalize him for me.

OTOH, even though it's being said for the referees' benefit, it's hard to say it was directed at the referees. The "sanctity" of the locker room just barely let's him slide by.

I'm of the opinion that you can T him, but I wouldn't at halftime. I'm with the guys who said they would wait until the second half and whack him as soon as he starts complaining about anything. No rope, nothing.

If he's going to deny saying it, he's going to do so whether you confronted him immediately or not. Either way, it's still your word against his.

If he confronts you, chances are there are more people around. A lot of people would have to lie or misrepresent the situation and harder to rely on. As a matter of fact and administrator or person with GM might also see that confrontation. Overhearing just makes it harder to prove it took place. In the gym there are likely hundreds of people and video cameras to back up either actions or sometimes words. That is why he would get a shorter leash and I would let him hang himself in that case. But if you T him up and then come out and say "We overheard you" he will say that did not happen and you went after him for something personal. I am not saying you have no right to do what you suggest, but make it so more observers can corroborate your position.

Peace

The last part of your statement is why what is said in the locker room can be dangerous to penalize. Those comments were not said to you and they were not said under your clear jurisdiction. It is one thing if something is said on the court where you have interpretations that support your penalizing behavior. This is more of a GM issue that could be reported to others and dealt with in other ways.

I am not telling anyone not to do this if they choose. Just be prepared for the back and forth to prove what you heard. And yes, that could get messy.

Peace

One thing I've learned, coaches lie all the time, so I'm not really concerned about "he said/she said".

None of my supervisors would want me calling a T b/c of something I overheard in the locker room. They would call that "looking for trouble". They would have no problem with me banging the MF'er first opportunity I could once the 2nd half started.

More succinct than mine, thank you.

It's not about he said/she said.

Consider this - if a T is appropriate in this situation, could it be applied fairly? We are not equidistant from the opposing locker room - such a ruling would inherently favor one team over the other much of the time. If you heard home team coach yelling all this - how do you know visitor team coach wasn't also saying the same thing?

And how do you know, positively, that it was head coach? Could be anyone in that room. Heck ... it COULD be a fan whose seat happens to be directly above you, or someone's dad who happens to be in the locker room for whatever reason. Or the janitor.

We have a couple of schools that put us into the coaches office in the middle of the locker room. If he directly confronts us in there, there's no one around but us and his players. I'm still calling that T.

Please. Most of the time, we know his voice. Further, if it's perfectly clear that he's doing that passive aggressive "I was talking to my players" BS, the visiting coach isn't guilty because we can't hear him. It's a cop out.

Again, I'm not calling this T, but I don't want to pretend we can't, either.

I would not be so sure. I try often to not talk to coaches and half the time I do not know their names. But then again I might not see a coach for years so to suggest all of us would know their names is not really the case. And it could be possible that he was an angel during 1st half too, which would make this conversation even more muddied.

And I think MD makes a great point. But the "Silence cannot be misquoted" can be applied to coaches too. He he does not want any retribution, then he has to watch what he says. I am just saying that based on my experiences and confrontations I have had with coaches on the court, I would pass on this situation when those situations caused controversy.

I had a situation a couple of years ago where I got blamed for a T given for uniforms and I was not even the calling or ruling official that gave this coach a T. And the coach lied and suggested I was "mad" at them because they had a T given to them because of a uniform violation. And that situation took place all on the court and led to a situation where the coach accused me of confronting him after a rather inappropriate comment.

Now where I live almost ever T has to be reported to the assignor. And if we gave a T for what took place in the locker room, I would not be comfortable for that being the reason.

Peace

Neither would I, but I would be perfectly comfortable putting that bit into the report I write for the T I give in the third quarter.

Full Support ...
 

Agree. In the case of my assignment commissioner, I know, for sure, that he will be calling the athletic director the next morning.

People sound significantly different when shouting in anger than they do when conversing or even raising their voice a bit. There's no way you can be positive it's him. You can be very sure ... but positive? I doubt it.

Sure enough to call the T? Yep. Not that I would, but I reserve that right.

I disagree.

A similar concept came up several years ago involving coaches cursing in the huddle during a time-out.
Several officials took the stance to stay out of it and not penalize what goes on in the team huddle. The NFHS then issued a ruling stating that the team huddle was not a safe zone for coach and that inappropriate language needed to be penalized. Furthermore, it didn't matter whether the language was directed at his own team or the officials.
Make your own comparison with the lockerroom situation.

If I can hear a coach cursing in his huddle from my timeout spot 20-30 feet away, then it sounds like the coach has violated the "Public" P.

This is tough. There is a (black) coach in my area who sometimes refers to his (almost all black) players with various racial references. As an official, am I supposed to penalize the way the coach interacts with his players? As I understand it, most officials (I've never worked there) leave it alone.

In one of my games I saw a coach slam his whiteboard on the ground during a timeout. I knew it wasn't because of the officiating, he was angry at his team. I left it alone. Tough decisions.