Looking for a balance
 

I won't attempt to explain every detail of this situation, as I'm not looking to get a specific answer about what happened to me. Just hoping to generate some discussion on some "game managment" and dealing with coaches when we're in that mode.

Monday night I'm working a GV game. Two teams I've had already, and I knew this was going to be a blowout from start to finish. Team B (visitior) has a head coach who is a whiner, begs for fouls, asks for "help" becasue of the score board, and generally doesn't seem to know a thing about coaching basketball. Reminds me of a rec league father who was "voluntold" he had to coach. Long story short, team A jumps out to something like a 20-2 lead, and B's coach starts with his usual routine of whining. It doesn't particularly bother me, but looking back I let him get away with too much. Add to that an empty quiet gym, and apparently to onlookers we let him get away with WAY too much. Winning Team A AD calls our comissioner and tells him we let the coach ride us the whole game etc. etc.

E-mail comes thru from the commish/assignor. We can't let this happen, why did it happen, the game was managed poorly etc. etc.

Last night, same scenario. GV blowout from the start, losing coach starts to get on me about a call he doesn't like. A few trips later I have a player control against his team. He's giving it to me the whole time I'm reporting then jumps up in the air and comes down and smacks the floor with both hands. With last night fresh in my mind I whack right there. At halftime my partners both have the same feelings: it was a charge, but close enough that I could've gone block with the scoreboard how it was. They don't necesarily disagree with the T, but with the score being the way it was I might have just been piling on and could've gone stern warning.

My long story leads me to this; How much should we/do we let the score and talent differential on the floor play into dealing with coaching behavior and the actual calling of the game. I'm finishing my second year as a varsity official, and I just constantly find myself leaving good competitive games happy and confident, while questioning myself leaving the "game managment" type of games. I assume this is just something that you develop a feel for with experience...?

Great Technical! Coaches are not allowed to act like that without consequences - Forget the warning on that one.

I think you're right, balance is a feel and comes with experience....I still recommend calling the game as it is....as the game tape won't lie.

The winning coach was a jerk in the original scenario. Just goes to show that many coaches will not hesitate to throw the officials under the bus. Then again, it sounds like your assignor was willing to take the coach's word at face value, which is equally disturbing.

That said, you probably need to agree in the pregame (with your partners) that you're going to deal with a known quantity a certain way.

The first time he starts complaining, you need to have someone there to quietly remind him that you aren't going to tolerate that kind of stuff. Do it in a way that doesn't make you the center of attention.

Next time he whines, it's a warning that everyone in the gym can recognize.

Third time? Whack.

As you get more experienced in these situations, you may be able to get away with saying some things that will quiet the coach down - "hey, don't take it out on us" - but for right now, have a plan and make sure all of you are on the same page.

I don't see the OP this way. Sounds like it was the AD that went to the assignor. He was probably wandering about the gym doing diff stuff AD's do...making sure the chili is hot enough on the hot dogs at concession in lobby..and taking some parents complaints.

Also have a prob with something else in OP: partners suggesting afterwards that you could have called a block instead of what you saw as a charge, just because team was behind on scoreboard:eek:

Yes the Home HC was not a jerk at all. I think the AD was just doing his thing as you stated, and because we were in a gym with about 11 fans he heard every word from the coach and thought these guys are letting him get away with an awful lot.

He said it was "close enough" to call it a block. I didn't say so in the locker room to the veteran R, but I felt myself that if that girls gets that spot and takes the contact she earned the charge and she's getting it from me. I'm all for ignoring some bumps that are iffy in a blowout scenario but couldn't just go the other way with this one.

Rich hit the nail on the head in my opinion. I will add that as you work more and more varsity games the coaches will start to learn you. Just like they know the other teams in their district, good coaches learn what officials will and will not tolerate and which ones are good. They can also smell indecisiveness (at least it seems that way). If you start doubting yourself they will take the opportunity to start working you.

I have seen two good examples personally. I always try to warn players early in the game about the lane and banging...and as I have posted, I count slowly on the three second violation. I finally had to call one in a game and as we are heading the other way, the coach of the team yells at his player "If that guy is calling you for three, you are killing the offense." The other was last weekend in a rec game. I tossed an assistant who insisted on being a jerk. The head coach for the other team knew me from when I called his two oldest sons in high school varsity. After the game he said "I felt like warning that poor assistant. I knew you were getting to your line real fast."

Bottom line, take the good feedback and good things you see in better officials and try to incorporate it in your game...and toss the rest. Stay confident in your ability and project calmness while on the floor.

I don't give the trailing team a break just because they are behind. I consider that poor officiating.

I really don't see it any different than giving the home team the breaks.

I call what I believe is right and I live with it.

Sorry, I read coach into it and should've said AD.

I agree. That said, when a team is down 30 points and the coach is frustrated -- this isn't the right time to miss one that benefits the losing team. It's why we have to stay mentally focused from beginning to end, even in the blowouts.

We're getting to the end of most of our seasons now and people are frustrated for different reasons. And officials that work a lot of games might find their ropes are a bit shorter than they were in November. All part of the territory.

"You Promote What You Permit"

The level of tolerance you may have for coaches complaining, begging, or whining, should NOT change based on the score or competitiveness of the game.

Whatever techniques or methods you use to deal with coaches in a competitive game are the same you should employ in the blowout with no one in the gym. The sign of a true "professional" official is doing everything on a consistent basis, night in and night out.

A coach that's down by 30 and showing his a$$ is maybe trying to get run. I mean what's the point man...your team is probably terrible (this night at least) and whose fault is that, while everyone in gym can see it. He needs to shut up and probably deserves LESS leeway (for me anyway) than someone in a tight contest, where naturally you'd expect some stuff.

Really appreciate all the feedback guys. I knew I blew it leaving the gym Monday night, just didn't feel like the game was managed well at all.

Then after handling what I felt needed to be handled last night and my partners referencing the scoreboard as a reason to back off my head was a mess.

Obviously every scenario has it's own variables, but I feel I learned from Monday night and wouldn't change anything about how I handled last night.

Agreed

Honestly - the amount of nonsense you take from any coach should have absolutely nothing to do with the score. That said, I echo some of Rich's comments. Sounds like AD was being a tool - and your assignor taking him at face value is problematical. Just because the AD felt you let too much go doesn't mean you let too much go. And perhaps he heard more than normal because of the empty gym - it's entirely possible the coach was no worse than any other coach, it was just more hearable because of the lack of fans --- only YOU can really answer that for us. It bothers me quite a bit that the assignor assumed the AD was right.

He didn't, he claimed it was "hear say" in the email. Said he requested video, and also this particular school requests a clock operator (in this case a veteran official who had to have his knees done so is out of service this year) so he asked for his feedback which he gave to me; I just didn't want to make the OP longer than it already was.

We did let him get away with too much, what I first chalked up to his frustration with his team and being overly animated, I let get to this is annoying but look at the time and score let's just get out of here.

I can come up with a list of reasons why I wasn't as focused for this game as I should've been but none of it matters: it wasn't handled correctly. I've chalked it up as a learning experience and a good reminder to never let myself mentally take the night off no matter what I think the game has in store for me.

How bout this for a whining coach? "I hear ya coach but if I wanted to hear nagging all night I would have just stayed home with my wife." :D That would be my first warning

I am very leery to pay too much attention to someone that is not an official. Even if the AD thinks something, that does not make it right. Even if that AD had officiating experience, that does not mean you took too much from the coach. I sometimes wonder why an assignor would even tell you something the AD said. It was not like you did something unprofessional or that was not very subjective. If the assignor has much of an issue, he could come out and see you work and make that determination on his own.

Peace

Since I work for your assignor also, I was going to say I doubt he just took the AD's word for it. I was going to suggest that maybe he spoke with your partners also. Your post definitely clears that up in way consistent with my experiences with our assignor.

You would be surprised. Sometimes these guys in my experience are more concerned with keeping their jobs, then supporting the officials. And I get that thinking on many levels, but many assignors do not have the official's best interest at heart when they take these complaints. If you are not happy about the job we are doing, hire someone else or keep us away from that school. But do not try to micro manage a situation when you may not know the entire story, other than talking to an AD.

I do get it if you feel the official did not do their job, but why tell the official what the AD said? All that does is bring the wrong kind of thinking about that AD and that school to the official.

And I am speaking also from having a recent conversation with an assignor who came to me about a coach that was by all accounts an a-hole (said by both my partners long before I knew for myself).

Peace

Shrug..
 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's a much higher % the AD is a former coach than a former official...so there ya go:rolleyes:

It's all been said, but in the second game... the coach that jumps up and slaps the floor with both hands that is an automatic T.

Very True. I had a MS girls game this Fall where i let an AC say way more than i should have (Yeah, I know). But, on the drive home, I was determined that in the future, I'd learn from the day's experience and not allow that to happen again.

In the winter at a 7th grade boys game, I ended up whacking a head coach for his prolonged comments that ended with "Are you kidding me?" screamed in my ear after what i saw was a routine held ball. I ran into my assignor the next day as he was officiating the game after mine and he told me he thought it was a good T based on my report of the incident to him. I had wondered if maybe i was going too far the other way, but hearing his feedback helped me feel as if I was doing a better job finding that balance.

I, also, work for your assignor. I recently had a situation in a game that got questioned. I have no problem with his work behind the scene. He did his due diligence. And, the following week he put in a game showed me that I still had his trust.

PS - PM me if you want to discuss either situation further.

Do what u do!!
 

I had a middle school game score 45-44 with 10.8 seconds left. Team trailing just fouled had team leading shooting one in one. Trailing teams player was outside three point line but below free throw line extended. Player misses fIrst free throw and I call vioLation. Trailing teams coach comes out on floor my partner who is administering free throw points at him and go to explain the violation which doesn't occur that often. Coach doesn't want to listen I get cursed out and I T the head coach. I inform my partner what happened and try to get him to go back down and tell coach what's about to happen and put seatbelt on. One in one noone on line then technical foul shots and ball to shooting team. He just waves at me as in you handle it. To get the game done as expected I go back to talk to coach and I get the second barrel cursed out hand in face. I promptly and professionally toss the coach. He leaves after about a minute. Free throws shot his team loses by about 5 points thanks to him. My partner says after the game I should have passed on the first tech. I told him he didn't curse you out. I didn't mention that he could have helped me by keeping me from going back to talk to coach. All said we gonna make mistakes and make some tough calls. That's our job. When you feel a coach needs to be dealt with do it and have a good conscience. The word will get around that your not the one to try. Balance that with patience and common sense and you'll be ok.

I'm not excusing coach's behavior, or saying the T's were bad.

But in the future don't let that type of violation happen. If your partner still has the ball, and you see a player where he/she isn't supposed to be, get the player to move back to a legal position.

Too late!
 

The free thrower had already received the ball when I saw him and I moved down (2 man trail tableside) to free throw line too get a good look before I made the call. I understand what your saying but if we start coaching we,re not doing our job at that point. I've coach at middle school then varsity level won numerous conference and lower state and a state runner up championship. I coached my players who couldn't line up on blocks to line up from top of key back toward midcourt. I received rule books every year. Read em when I felt like it. Never saw that call until a game last year my fifth year officiating. I called it twice and heard of it being called by another official in a different game. If I see a player trying to line up but is allowed a place on the block we back him out above the three point line at top of Key. Anything else its on the coach and layer. If I start coaching I've given an advantage to the other team. The saying goes its hard but its fair.

In that case, it needs to be penalized.

But, both (all) officials should look before administering the FT, and it's not coaching, it's preventive officiating.

Which is why I said 'if your partner still has the ball'. The higher level you officiate the more supervisors expect their officials to prevent these type of nuisance calls from having to be called. Its not coaching, its managing the game.

This didn't come from a coach but from a fan. "Hey ref, I'm going to tell your wife that your screwing us instead of her".
Normally I let what fans bark out roll off but I had to give that fan props for that one. One of the best lines I've ever heard!! :D