help me understand this foul

[shagpal]

I am a diamond sports official, but I would like some help understanding this call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JFRnCZXWzk

Originally Posted by shagpal

I am a diamond sports official, but I would like some help understanding this call.

Looks like a bad call to me. I guess the official saw Lowry's feet kick out and perhaps trip the defender, but that looks marginal to me.

I briefly searched the NBA rule and case books but found nothing about this situation. APG?

[JetMetFan]

This...

Referees to emphasize ‘Reggie Miller rule’ for shooters kicking out*legs | The Point Forward - SI.com

[APG]

Correct call IMO. Lowlrey sticks out his leg and causes contact when it's clear that the defender won't be contacting him. Though the contact isn't great, the contact trips up the defender. As alluded to JMF's article, the NBA started more strictly enforcing these types of plays as offensive fouls and similar plays in past POE videos bares this out.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by APG

Correct call IMO. Lowlrey sticks out his leg and causes contact when it's clear that the defender won't be contacting him. Though the contact isn't great, the contact trips up the defender. As alluded to JMF's article, the NBA started more strictly enforcing these types of plays as offensive fouls and similar plays in past POE videos bares this out.

Could be correct by NBA rules/interps (certainly not my area of expertise), but after looking at the replay multiple times, it doesn't look to me like the offensibe player stuck his leg out. In fact, after the ball was released, the defender makes contact on the arm of the shooter (last replay starting @ ~1:38 shows this best) which is what appears to be the cause of the body twist/right leg going forward.

[Indianaref]

If you are asking whether the technical foul was correct, yes at all levels.

[APG]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Could be correct by NBA rules/interps (certainly not my area of expertise), but after looking at the replay multiple times, it doesn't look to me like the offensibe player stuck his leg out. In fact, after the ball was released, the defender makes contact on the arm of the shooter (last replay starting @ ~1:38 shows this best) which is what appears to be the cause of the body twist/right leg going forward.

The right leg was going forward before any of that marginal contact with the arm after the release.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by APG

The right leg was going forward before any of that marginal contact with the arm after the release.

Near impossible to tell what happened first in my opinion. I'm looking at 1:41 and there is no contact on the arm, nor is there any leg kick. by 1:42, there is both contact on the right arm (agree that it is marginal and doesn't deserve a call) and the right leg is now in front of the left. Both arm contact and leg movement seem to happen right at the change from 1:41 - 1:42.

What happened first aside, do you think the official was happy with this call after watching it? There are calls that I have made that might be technically correct, but that I wish in hindsight that I would have no-called. This seems like it would be one of those situations where the official in hindsight would have wished he had let this go as a no call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Near impossible to tell what happened first in my opinion. I'm looking at 1:41 and there is no contact on the arm, nor is there any leg kick. by 1:42, there is both contact on the right arm (agree that it is marginal and doesn't deserve a call) and the right leg is now in front of the left. Both arm contact and leg movement seem to happen right at the change from 1:41 - 1:42.

What happened first aside, do you think the official was happy with this call after watching it? There are calls that I have made that might be technically correct, but that I wish in hindsight that I would have no-called. This seems like it would be one of those situations where the official in hindsight would have wished he had let this go as a no call.

The leg may not "kick", but he certainly sticks it out way beyond his vertical plane in a way that causes the defender to trip. Normally I wouldn't mind a no-call, but this is a situation where you have one player responsible for contact that puts the opponent on the floor. I like the call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Near impossible to tell what happened first in my opinion. I'm looking at 1:41 and there is no contact on the arm, nor is there any leg kick. by 1:42, there is both contact on the right arm (agree that it is marginal and doesn't deserve a call) and the right leg is now in front of the left. Both arm contact and leg movement seem to happen right at the change from 1:41 - 1:42.

What happened first aside, do you think the official was happy with this call after watching it? There are calls that I have made that might be technically correct, but that I wish in hindsight that I would have no-called. This seems like it would be one of those situations where the official in hindsight would have wished he had let this go as a no call.

With both players going to the floor on this type of play...IMO a call needed to be made.

[JRutledge]

I am not sold on the call either, but if you do not want this to be called, do not stick your leg out every time to make a shot. Sorry, but that is very common and was often overlooked because the offensive player could create almost murder and no one (including me at one time) would call nothing. I would be happier with a no call, but the NBA must have addressed this issue with their officials.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

I think we had a thread on this a few months ago and I was alone (I think) on this being a foul on the offense. Most were in agreement that you have to protect the shooter but I think the shooter is taking away the path of the defense illegally. I would be ok with a no call here but I am also ok with the offensive foul. As a secondary question, is this a PC foul or a no team control foul (ie free throws or not)?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I think we had a thread on this a few months ago and I was alone (I think) on this being a foul on the offense. Most were in agreement that you have to protect the shooter but I think the shooter is taking away the path of the defense illegally. I would be ok with a no call here but I am also ok with the offensive foul. As a secondary question, is this a PC foul or a no team control foul (ie free throws or not)?

If you're asking NBA, this is an offensive foul...

NFHS...what are fouls committed by an airborne shooter classified as?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not sold on the call either, but if you do not want this to be called, do not stick your leg out every time to make a shot. Sorry, but that is very common and was often overlooked because the offensive player could create almost murder and no one (including me at one time) would call nothing. I would be happier with a no call, but the NBA must have addressed this issue with their officials.

Peace

It's not the most egregious example, but I like the call. Fortunately, most high school shooters aren't doing this to try to get a call.

Yet.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

It's not the most egregious example, but I like the call. Fortunately, most high school shooters aren't doing this to try to get a call.

Yet.

I have seen some try it, but they are not as good in the execution.

Peace