Iowa State/Kansas (Clip Added)

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He is backing up, how is that going forward?

This should have been a PC foul at the very least.

Peace

He certainly didn't move laterally with the dribbler. The defender was set around the middle of the foul line, the dribbler then tried going around him at the elbow, and the defender slid over into the path.

There was a time when too many blocks were called, making things unfair for the defense. I'm now seeing too many charges called, making things unfair for the offense. The dribbler is not trying to "run over" the defense on the way to the basket, he's simply trying to get around the defender.

I've been asked, and I've seen it asked of others... what did the dribbler do wrong?

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've been asked, and I've seen it asked of others... what did the dribbler do wrong?

Caused contact to the body of a defender who had and was maintaining Legal Guarding Position

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

He certainly didn't move laterally with the dribbler. The defender was set around the middle of the foul line, the dribbler then tried going around him at the elbow, and the defender slid over into the path.

There was a time when too many blocks were called, making things unfair for the defense. I'm now seeing too many charges called, making things unfair for the offense. The dribbler is not trying to "run over" the defense on the way to the basket, he's simply trying to get around the defender.

I've been asked, and I've seen it asked of others... what did the dribbler do wrong?

The defender has the right to move into his path when he has gained LGP. He cannot come forward towards the ball handler.

You really need to get back in that book if what you said was illegal on the behalf of the defender. Sorry, you really need to get into that book and read the definitions just using your own words.

The defender did nothing wrong based on the replay.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The defender has the right to move into his path when he has gained LGP. He cannot come forward towards the ball handler.

You really need to get back in that book if what you said was illegal on the behalf of the defender. Sorry, you really need to get into that book and read the definitions just using your own words.

The defender did nothing wrong based on the replay.

Peace

I laid out my reasons in my last post. Like I said, I understand that I'm in the minority, and may very-well be wrong. But I just don't see it.

Is it me, or is the rule book skewed towards defense? It's like the NFHS is trying to make up for the fact that for years good defense was penalized by officials.

By the way, and this isn't for JRut... let's cut the hyperbole about this and other calls here being the "easiest call in the World" (or something like that). If they were that easy they wouldn't be posted here for discussion in the first place. I actually find comments like that to be insulting.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Is it me, or is the rule book skewed towards defense? It's like the NFHS is trying to make up for the fact that for years good defense was penalized by officials.

Why do you believe this? For the most part, the rule book places the onus on the defense to get legal and to maintain that legality.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by APG

Why do you believe this? For the most part, the rule book places the onus on the defense to get legal and to maintain that legality.

Because they go into great detail on what legal guarding is, but say little to nothing in regards to legally trying to avoid a charging call. It's like once a defender has LGP, they can do no wrong, and therefore any contact is the fault of the offense.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Because they go into great detail on what legal guarding is, but say little to nothing in regards to legally trying to avoid a charging call. It's like once a defender has LGP, they can do no wrong, and therefore any contact is the fault of the offense.

The dribbler has to stop or change direction...he needs to change direction in a manner in which the defender will lose LGP. The rule book doesn't go into much detail (besides mentioning greater responsibility for contact shifting to the defender if the dribbler gets head and shoulders past the defender) because how much more detail do you need?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

It's like once a defender has LGP, they can do no wrong, and therefore any contact is the fault of the offense.

This is not true. In the first place LGP can be lost just as quickly as it was established, depending on the movement of both players. Also, a player may have LGP then commit a foul by moving forward into the dribbler or by extending an arm and making contact. And of course the foul can still be on the offense without the defender ever having LGP at all.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Because they go into great detail on what legal guarding is, but say little to nothing in regards to legally trying to avoid a charging call. It's like once a defender has LGP, they can do no wrong, and therefore any contact is the fault of the offense.

You cannot "legally" avoid a charging call. It either is a PC or it isn't. The defender either HAD and maintained LGP or he didn't. The rules states what it takes for all these to apply.

The defender established LGP and maintained it when the contact occurred.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

By the way, and this isn't for JRut... let's cut the hyperbole about this and other calls here being the "easiest call in the World" (or something like that). If they were that easy they wouldn't be posted here for discussion in the first place. I actually find comments like that to be insulting.

When I said that, I prefaced it with "From the angle in the video". In real time, I don't think that is necessarily an easy call. I can see plenty of good officials calling a block there. But I think when watching the video, most of those officials would wish they had gone PC.

Does anyone else think that the C could have been late picking up the defender? The drive starts in T's area.....and ends in T's area. Why doesn't T have a whistle??

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Does anyone else think that the C could have been late picking up the defender? The drive starts in T's area.....and ends in T's area. Why doesn't T have a whistle??

That was my thought - sort of - at first also...looks more like he is late picking up the defender. He seems to be watching the ball handler the entire time, and only sees the defender right before the contact.

And to BryanV21...that's what makes this forum so good. We are all wrong at one time or another on here...even the ones who are the biggest jerks to people who question them or disagree with them. Ignore them...find a handful of posters whose opinions and delivery you can respect and bounce your thoughts off of those people.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Does anyone else think that the C could have been late picking up the defender? The drive starts in T's area.....and ends in T's area. Why doesn't T have a whistle??

Maybe he trusted the T. Maybe he was processing the situation and the C beat him to it. Who really knows unless you talk to the officials why they did or did not do something. All we are going to do is speculate and that could be totally wrong based on the officials in the video.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Does anyone else think that the C could have been late picking up the defender? The drive starts in T's area.....and ends in T's area. Why doesn't T have a whistle??

That crash is right in front of the C, I would take that call also if I were the C.

[zm1283]

Tally another vote for PC. I like watching Higgins probably more than any other NCAA official, but he missed this one. It happens.