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-   -   Elbow Contact Avove the Shoulder post foul call (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97120-elbow-contact-avove-shoulder-post-foul-call.html)

jeremy341a Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:49am

Elbow Contact Avove the Shoulder post foul call
 
Player is trapped. Player chins the ball but in doing so is fouled on the arm. A moment later at almost the same time the whistle is sounding for the original foul the Offensive player is pivoting and connects her elbow with the defensive players nose. Let's assume for this discussion that in this area that moving elbow contact above the shoulders is an intentional foul. Since the ball was dead on the original foul does this make the elbow contact a Technical foul do to the ball being dead?

jdmara Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 920032)
Player is trapped. Player chins the ball but in doing so is fouled on the arm. A moment later at almost the same time the whistle is sounding for the original foul the Offensive player is pivoting and connects her elbow with the defensive players nose. Let's assume for this discussion that in this area that moving elbow contact above the shoulders is an intentional foul. Since the ball was dead on the original foul does this make the elbow contact a Technical foul do to the ball being dead?

If the elbow is at approximately the same time, it could be a double foul.

-Josh

bob jenkins Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 920032)
Player is trapped. Player chins the ball but in doing so is fouled on the arm. A moment later at almost the same time the whistle is sounding for the original foul the Offensive player is pivoting and connects her elbow with the defensive players nose. Let's assume for this discussion that in this area that moving elbow contact above the shoulders is an intentional foul. Since the ball was dead on the original foul does this make the elbow contact a Technical foul do to the ball being dead?

By rule, yes.

jeremy341a Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 920034)
If the elbow is at approximately the same time, it could be a double foul.

-Josh

How close does it have to be to be approximately the same time? In this instance the one took place at the same time whistle was blowing for the first one so there was obviously some delay but not much. The ball was dead as some time elapsed between them.

River Ref Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:08pm

Call the double. Sounds like the elbow motion had probably all ready started
if it was as close as you say.

Camron Rust Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 920041)
How close does it have to be to be approximately the same time? In this instance the one took place at the same time whistle was blowing for the first one so there was obviously some delay but not much. The ball was dead as some time elapsed between them.

I'd still call that a double.

Rich Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:20pm

I had one at the beginning of this season. Player is surrounded by defenders, travels, and just after I blow the whistle, the player with the ball elbows a defender in the head. I called a technical -- it was too much to ignore.

Naturally, his coach told me if I had gotten those players off his kid in the first place... :roll eyes:

Still my only technical foul of 2013-14, come to think of it in over 30 dates. Anyone who knows me would probably be surprised by that. :D

jeremy341a Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by River Ref (Post 920044)
Call the double. Sounds like the elbow motion had probably all ready started
if it was as close as you say.

The pivoting with the elbows out was in an attempt to get the arms off of her.

HokiePaul Mon Jan 27, 2014 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 920045)
I'd still call that a double.

Is it correct that play would resume at the POI if this was called a double foul (where one part of the double foul was common and the other was intentional)? I assume it would be but I can't say that I'm 100% certain.

Edit: I did see in some old posts that this would in fact go to POI. Seems weird though as the most likely POI will probably be a spot throw in for the intentional fouler's team.


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