Help with odd Scenario
 

Last night 2 local teams played a very competitive game that went down to a last second, game winning shot. I was working a collegiate game but was inundated with text messages from fans at the game asking about an end of game scenerio:

With 5 seconds on the clock, Team A is at the line for the first of 2 free throws. The ball is in the throwers hands. The trail official is getting his keister handed to him by the coach of the team (Team B) that just committed the foul and subsequently yells for a time out. The trail, was flustered, and blew his whistle (again, the free thrower has the ball) for the time-out. The 3 officials got together and decided they would readminister the free throw and grant the time out when the first free throw was completed.

Additional information, this game allows the 14' coaching box. Coach B is at the half-court line "discussing his displeasure" with the call and Coach A is telling the officials that should be a T for being out of the box.

I will likely see the game footage in the next couple of nights, so my scenerio is putting the text message story together.

Thoughts and insight appreciated on this scenerio.

This doesn't seem the kind of thing that dozens of fans would text officials they know about. Granted that this was mildly wrong, how did it actually affect the game?

Grant the TO *before* the first FT.

On the coaching box issue, it's area dependent.

I would not just turn around and wack that coach for being out of the box without knowing anything else about what led up to it. I would actually think no matter what, based on the time and situation he would get a stern "Coach, you need to get back in your box and then I will talk to you" and as long as he did oblige and return immediatley there's no need for a T. I'm also a little unclear about what the big deal was for end of game. The ref blew his whistle when he shouldn't have, but it sounds like there was really no influence on the shot at all.

Agreed. There was no impact other than the stoppage in play could have "iced" the shooter. The player made both FT's and tied the game so there was no impact. It was just interesting. Like I said, I want to view the video as there must be more too it. I had 10 different people text me about it. Several were officials and several were fans that have common sense so they were just inquiring about the situation.

Doesn't blowing the whistle and all three officials huddling also "ice" the shooter? At this point the game is interrupted by an inadvertent whistle and a timeout may be granted.

Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?

No rule book in front of me, but based on common sense I would say charge the timeout. If he caused the inadvertant whistle with his request and had no timeout's left, the team is certianly going to get hit with the T.

There is (or was) some case to the affect that "A1 is dribbling when coach B requests a TO. The official blows the whistle. Ruling: Grant the TO."

It's the same thing here. The TO is granted.

I seem to remember something that says the TO is granted even when the official inadvertantly blows the whistle.

I had it happen to me last Saturday. It was a slow paced game (read B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!) and I was thinking about focusing on my mechanics when the visiting coach requested a TO as I went by. I blew the whistle and immediately cussed myself under my breath because his team was on defense. Coach said "My bad, I made you look bad and know better. Forget the request and lets go with an inadvertant." So I put the ball back in play and kicked myself again for good measure.

I've done it a couple of times in rec ball, especially after doing 4 or 5 games in a row it can be tough to remember who is cocahing which team and what direction we're going at the current moment. I never give them the TO even though I know I'm supposed to. I just figure they need to learn and giving them the TO anyway isn't the way to teach. Plus it avoids the parent yells that are sure to come next, "they don't have the ball he can't call timeout!!"

By not giving the TO in this situation, you may be giving the coach exactly what he really wants - a reset of his defense - without charging him for the timeout.

If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.

In the scenario from the OP, what about doing this...?

Since the thrower should have been allowed to complete his first try, the throw is started over and the first three throw is completed. Then award the TO, since this would be the first time a TO should be granted. After the TO you award the 2nd free throw and move on with the rest of the game.

You shouldn't award that type of thing. Sure, as somebody that appreciates cunningness, you may want to do this. But the bottom line is he requested a time out, so he should be charged a time out.

This requires no bit of cunningness at all.

I'm not saying he intentionally called a timeout when he wasn't allowed to, hoping you'd call it and then ignore the rule, so he'd get his timeout back.

I'm saying he called timeout to reset his defense (or any number of other reasons). That's all. You let him do so ... but then didn't charge the timeout. So he got what he wanted, and as an added bonus, he gets to keep his TO.

It's not a horrible thing (especially in rec) that you mistakenly stopped play - a minor mistake in the scheme of things. But don't make it doubly so by not charging the timeout.

Generally...I agree with you. In my case, after watching the guy interact with his team, seeing how unprepared they looked and how he conducted himself...he was nowhere close to be cunning enough to try to get a quick reset. He had a somewhat decent grasp of SOME of the rules but appeared to have absolutely no clue how to coach a team or teach basketball skills. If he is a good teacher of basketball skills his players were really bad when he got them. :eek: :D

If you're going strictly by the book, this isn't the correct way to handle this. You would grant the TO...and resume with two FT's after the TO (which is what bob was alluding into with the casebook play 5.8.3 Situation E telling us to grant the TO even though he asked for it when he shouldn't have been granted it by rule).

This is exactly what the officials did.

Is blowing your whistle the same as granting the timeout? Timeouts must be "granted" could you simply go inadvertant whistle and start the free throw again? Obviously, the reason you blew the whistle was to grant the TO but this is a good learning opportunity for all of us. In 5.8.3 it specifically says if a time out is "requested and erroneously granted" so is blowing the whistle basically also granting the timeout?

By rule, no. By case play ... still no. You can't IW and FT. Once you blew it (IW), you now have to take the TO.

Timeout ...
 

This (above) really doesn't matter because once the inadvertent whistle is sounded, then the coach can legally request, and legally be granted, a timeout. It's a dead ball. There is no player, or team control. It's probably not a successive timeout when playing time expired for the fourth period, or any extra period. Probably no inured, or disqualified, player to attend to. The ball has probably already become live to start the game. How can you legally stop the coach from requesting, and being granted a timeout, even if it's a time out in excess of the allotted number? When the coach says, "Why not", what will you tell him? "Because I'm your mother."? Wait? I'm being told ... Whose mother? Mine? Ignore the last part.

As posted here, the proper HS ruling is to grant and charge the time-out even though it was requested at an improper time. Both FTs will be attempted following the TO.
As for the coaching box enforcement, that depends upon how strict your local area is about it, but perhaps the coach was all the way out there because he was trying to get the official's attention for a TO and wasn't being recognized.

Lastly, I'm concerned why so many fans in your local area have the OP's number. I can see fellow officials having it, but not random fans. Did his kid play with theirs a year or so ago? Is this a super small town in the Midwest where everyone knows everyone? Is he a local school teacher? I would contend that someone isn't maintaining the proper separation from the local spectators for a higher level official.

The rule is clear, once you blow the whistle in this case, you need to grant the TO immediately. It doesn't matter what the situation is: loose ball, A1 dribbling, pass in flight, shot in flight, or a free throw imminent.

I agree that I would wonder why so many fans would have the OP's cell phone number, but I wouldn't jump straight to assuming the OP is doing something wrong. There are a number of explanations (perhaps it was just two or three fans, for example).