Held ball vs. travelling

[oc]

I have been having a hard time understanding when to call a held ball and when to call a travel in the following situation:

A1 goes for a shot and B1 puts a hand(s) on the ball preventing the release of the ball and then A1 comes down with the ball.

Is the deciding factor whether or not B1 put 1 or 2 hands on the ball? As I just reread the case plays in HS FED book I noticed case 4.25.2 says "hands" while 4.43.2 does not. Other than that 4.25.2 a looks the same as 4.43.3 sit a part c to me. Except for one it is a held ball the other is a travel.

[cmathews]

the difference between the two is that in 4.25.2 when b touches the ball it prevents the pass or shot from occuring, in 4.43.2 the touching doesn't prevent the pass or shot from occuring. read the comments after the situations.

[SamIAm]

NCAA rules: Rule 4, Sec35, Interpretations Play 3

The reference above specifically talks about a player jumping to pass the ball instead of jumping to shoot the ball.

[JeffTheRef]

weakness in the language.

The hardest part of this rule, in my experience, is to distinguish between the situation when the player is "unable to control the ball and it drops to the floor" and when the defense deserves credit for having knocked the ball loose. It does tend to flash by . . .

[mick]

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
weakness in the language.

The hardest part of this rule, in my experience, is to distinguish between the situation when the player is "unable to control the ball and it drops to the floor" and when the defense deserves credit for having knocked the ball loose. It does tend to flash by . . .

JeffThe Ref,

It is given that if the player cannot release the ball, "Jump!"

RE: Releasing the ball:

...player is "unable to control the ball and it drops to the floor" could be the same thing as defense deserves credit for having knocked the ball loose.

The important clarification is whether the release is voluntary or involuntary.

Did the elevated player release because he wanted to release it, or did the elevated player release the ball even though he didn't want to release it.

The voluntary release is a travel, while the involuntary release is "nothing, play on."

mick

[cmathews]

Mick is absolutely correct, it is sometimes hard to tell. From my experiences, if in doubt a jump ball is usually pretty well accepted, so my advice would be if in doubt call the jump ball, but call it, and sell it... Usually the coaches won't question it much...

[SamIAm]

mick,

To add a little to your response, a voluntary release is a travel only if he then takes position of the ball (again) after the voluntary release and returns to the floor with the ball or is the first person to touch the ball after returning to the floor. I think that is what you meant since the original question had A1 returning to the floor with the ball.



There are a couple of official decisions to make here.

1) did the defensive player knock the ball loose or did the offensive player voluntarily release the ball.
Jump Ball or potential travel or grapple for the ball

2) did the defensive player create a loose ball or did the defensive player hit the ball, but not knock it loose.
Jump Ball or new possession for the offensive player.

Whatever you call, I agree with cmathews, sell it.

[Damian]

I see a lot of jump balls called when the ball is loose and players are jumping all over each other. Many times, I see what appears to be a foul (loose ball or otherwise no player control). One player dives on top or over of the other with a lot of contact. The ball may or may not even be touched by both players. But the offical calls a jump ball.

I do see provisions where an official can call a jump ball when it appears that continue play on a loose ball could cause injury. But, does that mean that when the ball is loose there is no holds barred?

What do you think?

I also agree on selling the call on the other scenario. In my experience, when a player jumps to attempt a shot, and it is blocked without leaving his hands, and he comes down with it. It is a jump ball.

[BktBallRef]

Normally, if there's a scramble for the ball with players on the floor, you won't to call the held ball little quicker. By contrast, if the players are standing, hold your whistle and someone may come away with the ball.

[mick]

Originally posted by Damian
I do see provisions where an official can call a jump ball when it appears that continue play on a loose ball could cause injury. But, does that mean that when the ball is loose there is no holds barred?

What do you think?

Damian,

I used to be a parent.
When I was, I used "gut feeling" gleaned from experience as a barometer for a re-start of actions that have a potentially, escalating out-of-control situation. (Some call it judgment.)
On the harwood, I use the same tool along with a 'Fox'.

Never does "no holds barred" legally apply to this sport.

mick

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Damian
I see a lot of jump balls called when the ball is loose and players are jumping all over each other. Many times, I see what appears to be a foul (loose ball or otherwise no player control). One player dives on top or over of the other with a lot of contact. The ball may or may not even be touched by both players. But the offical calls a jump ball.

I do see provisions where an official can call a jump ball when it appears that continue play on a loose ball could cause injury. But, does that mean that when the ball is loose there is no holds barred?

What do you think?

Well Damian, here's the rule:
4-27-2
Incidental Contact
Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.